The Disappearance of Debra Ann Wilhite

1
00:00:00.200 –> 00:00:05.759
Speaker:
One of Debbie’s younger sisters
came to her mother because her

2
00:00:05.759 –> 00:00:11.039
Speaker:
friend was just freaking out and
crying and talking about some

3
00:00:11.039 –> 00:00:12.279
Speaker:
craziness or whatever.

4
00:00:12.279 –> 00:00:16.980
Speaker:
So mom went and spoke to her,
and she said that the friend of

5
00:00:16.980 –> 00:00:22.480
Speaker:
Debbie’s sister said that her
father had told her that he had

6
00:00:22.480 –> 00:00:26.239
Speaker:
shot Debbie in the head, put her
body in the trunk of the car,

7
00:00:26.239 –> 00:00:30.039
Speaker:
and shot gunned the car into a
stripper pit that was filled

8
00:00:30.039 –> 00:00:33.679
Speaker:
with water that was nicknamed
the Duck Pond.

9
00:00:36.479 –> 00:00:41.520
Speaker:
Every time we’re together, it’s
overshadowed by the fact that

10
00:00:41.520 –> 00:00:43.920
Speaker:
someone’s missing someone.

11
00:00:43.920 –> 00:00:45.960
Speaker:
Very important.

12
00:00:45.960 –> 00:00:48.719
Speaker:
I went to pry it, and when I
kicked the door in.

13
00:00:48.719 –> 00:00:51.679
Speaker:
Next thing you know was all you
seen was my brother, and he was

14
00:00:51.679 –> 00:00:53.119
Speaker:
slumped over on the couch.

15
00:00:53.119 –> 00:00:56.960
Speaker:
And I mean, blood just coming
from everywhere.

16
00:00:56.960 –> 00:00:59.159
Speaker:
I offered the cops to go and

17
00:00:59.159 –> 00:01:02.030
Speaker:
take them to the exact spot I

18
00:01:02.030 –> 00:01:03.890
Speaker:
pulled over him when I turned

19
00:01:03.890 –> 00:01:04.250
Speaker:
around.

20
00:01:04.250 –> 00:01:07.969
Speaker:
I pulled over and I called my
wife and I’m watching him out my

21
00:01:07.969 –> 00:01:12.370
Speaker:
rear view mirror and he’s
walking towards the tracks where

22
00:01:12.370 –> 00:01:15.170
Speaker:
he went from there after I left
from that spot.

23
00:01:15.170 –> 00:01:19.790
Speaker:
I don’t know, I was there at
Saint Joe and Diamond working,

24
00:01:19.790 –> 00:01:23.569
Speaker:
you know, mid-morning, you know,
my cell phone rings.

25
00:01:23.569 –> 00:01:26.450
Speaker:
I don’t recognize the number.

26
00:01:26.450 –> 00:01:28.469
Speaker:
So this woman, I didn’t

27
00:01:28.469 –> 00:01:29.849
Speaker:
recognize her because she was

28
00:01:29.849 –> 00:01:31.290
Speaker:
distressed.

29
00:01:31.290 –> 00:01:36.010
Speaker:
She she says, this man come in
and shot me.

30
00:01:39.090 –> 00:01:42.370
Speaker:
Welcome to this episode of River
City Mystery, the podcast where

31
00:01:42.370 –> 00:01:44.890
Speaker:
we look into the mysteries of
southern Indiana, southern

32
00:01:44.890 –> 00:01:47.329
Speaker:
Illinois, and Western Kentucky.

33
00:01:47.329 –> 00:01:49.530
Speaker:
In this episode, we’re going to
be digging into one of the

34
00:01:49.530 –> 00:01:53.930
Speaker:
Tri-State area’s oldest missing
persons cases, the case of

35
00:01:53.930 –> 00:01:56.170
Speaker:
Debra Ann Wilhite.

36
00:01:56.170 –> 00:02:00.209
Speaker:
Imagine being only eighteen
months old when your mom just

37
00:02:00.209 –> 00:02:02.450
Speaker:
vanishes into thin air.

38
00:02:02.450 –> 00:02:06.530
Speaker:
Then just two years later, you
lose your dad in a freak car

39
00:02:06.530 –> 00:02:10.729
Speaker:
accident, and a couple years
after that, your only sister

40
00:02:10.729 –> 00:02:13.169
Speaker:
passes away from leukemia.

41
00:02:13.169 –> 00:02:15.030
Speaker:
It sounds like a horrible movie

42
00:02:15.030 –> 00:02:17.169
Speaker:
script from hell, but for Misty

43
00:02:17.169 –> 00:02:19.050
Speaker:
Lynn Walker, it’s her actual

44
00:02:19.050 –> 00:02:20.530
Speaker:
life.

45
00:02:20.530 –> 00:02:22.449
Speaker:
Misty has been left behind with

46
00:02:22.449 –> 00:02:23.889
Speaker:
a mountain of unanswered

47
00:02:23.889 –> 00:02:25.090
Speaker:
questions.

48
00:02:25.090 –> 00:02:28.490
Speaker:
And today, she’s on a
relentless, deeply personal

49
00:02:28.490 –> 00:02:32.849
Speaker:
mission to find out what
happened with her mom.

50
00:02:32.849 –> 00:02:35.650
Speaker:
This mystery goes all the way
back to October 14,

51
00:02:35.650 –> 00:02:37.569
Speaker:
1974.

52
00:02:37.569 –> 00:02:40.810
Speaker:
Misty’s mom, 19-year-old
Debra Ann Wilhite.

53
00:02:40.810 –> 00:02:43.650
Speaker:
Everybody knew her, as Debbie
had just finished up her shift

54
00:02:43.650 –> 00:02:46.689
Speaker:
as a waitress at the Windmill
Restaurant on highway forty one

55
00:02:46.689 –> 00:02:48.490
Speaker:
in Evansville, Indiana.

56
00:02:48.490 –> 00:02:49.610
Speaker:
This is located.

57
00:02:49.610 –> 00:02:50.930
Speaker:
For those familiar with the
area.

58
00:02:50.930 –> 00:02:52.409
Speaker:
This is located at the.

59
00:02:52.409 –> 00:02:56.250
Speaker:
Where the Dairy Queen is at
41 and Petersburg Road.

60
00:02:56.250 –> 00:02:59.580
Speaker:
There’s also a Windmill Marathon
station right there.

61
00:02:59.580 –> 00:03:02.379
Speaker:
So Debbie had just finished her
shift and she was supposed to go

62
00:03:02.379 –> 00:03:04.419
Speaker:
pick up her husband after work.

63
00:03:04.419 –> 00:03:08.500
Speaker:
She’d walked out to her green
1966 Ford Galaxie

64
00:03:08.500 –> 00:03:11.580
Speaker:
and basically fell off the face
of the earth.

65
00:03:11.580 –> 00:03:13.580
Speaker:
She was never seen again.

66
00:03:13.580 –> 00:03:15.460
Speaker:
There have been no phone calls,

67
00:03:15.460 –> 00:03:18.639
Speaker:
no letters, no trace of the car

68
00:03:18.639 –> 00:03:20.539
Speaker:
just gone.

69
00:03:20.539 –> 00:03:22.020
Speaker:
In this episode, Misty and I

70
00:03:22.020 –> 00:03:23.219
Speaker:
have a conversation about what

71
00:03:23.219 –> 00:03:24.460
Speaker:
it’s been like to navigate a

72
00:03:24.460 –> 00:03:25.860
Speaker:
decades long search for the

73
00:03:25.860 –> 00:03:26.740
Speaker:
truth.

74
00:03:26.740 –> 00:03:30.060
Speaker:
We discuss some of the theories
of the case, like a mysterious

75
00:03:30.060 –> 00:03:33.039
Speaker:
hitchhiker who had just hopped
off a cattle truck from Indy,

76
00:03:33.039 –> 00:03:36.539
Speaker:
and a rumor about a stripper pit
known as the Duck Pond.

77
00:03:36.539 –> 00:03:37.539
Speaker:
We also talk about the

78
00:03:37.539 –> 00:03:38.979
Speaker:
frustrating roadblocks she’s

79
00:03:38.979 –> 00:03:40.860
Speaker:
hit, trying to get police files,

80
00:03:40.860 –> 00:03:42.539
Speaker:
and how volunteer sonar teams

81
00:03:42.539 –> 00:03:43.460
Speaker:
are helping her look for the

82
00:03:43.460 –> 00:03:44.460
Speaker:
car.

83
00:03:44.460 –> 00:03:45.699
Speaker:
And we also talk about how she’s

84
00:03:45.699 –> 00:03:47.060
Speaker:
taking the investigation into

85
00:03:47.060 –> 00:03:48.780
Speaker:
her own hands by starting a

86
00:03:48.780 –> 00:03:50.860
Speaker:
website searching for Debra dot

87
00:03:50.860 –> 00:03:52.020
Speaker:
com.

88
00:03:52.020 –> 00:03:53.740
Speaker:
This is a story about a daughter

89
00:03:53.740 –> 00:03:55.539
Speaker:
who refuses to let her mother be

90
00:03:55.539 –> 00:03:56.740
Speaker:
forgotten.

91
00:03:56.740 –> 00:03:59.340
Speaker:
Misty, thank you so much for
being here today.

92
00:03:59.340 –> 00:04:02.020
Speaker:
Well, thanks for having me on, I
appreciate it.

93
00:04:02.020 –> 00:04:03.060
Speaker:
You’re welcome.

94
00:04:03.060 –> 00:04:05.219
Speaker:
Well, I’ll just start with who

95
00:04:05.219 –> 00:04:07.139
Speaker:
was Debra Ann Wilhite, who was

96
00:04:07.139 –> 00:04:08.460
Speaker:
Debbie?

97
00:04:08.460 –> 00:04:10.060
Speaker:
And she went by Debby mostly.

98
00:04:10.060 –> 00:04:14.099
Speaker:
She was born Debra Ann
Pfettcher.

99
00:04:14.099 –> 00:04:20.100
Speaker:
Um, and that starts with a P as
in Paul “p f e”, not an “F”. And her

100
00:04:20.100 –> 00:04:23.300
Speaker:
parents were Lucille and Irwin.

101
00:04:23.300 –> 00:04:25.819
Speaker:
She had two little sisters.

102
00:04:25.819 –> 00:04:30.980
Speaker:
She went to Tecumseh High
School, but she did drop out.

103
00:04:30.980 –> 00:04:37.100
Speaker:
And she married my father, Jeff
Wilhite, in 1970.

104
00:04:37.100 –> 00:04:39.980
Speaker:
So she was born in 1954.

105
00:04:39.980 –> 00:04:43.420
Speaker:
She went to Girl Scout Camp in

106
00:04:43.420 –> 00:04:44.939
Speaker:
1968, and by

107
00:04:44.939 –> 00:04:46.500
Speaker:
1970 she was

108
00:04:46.500 –> 00:04:47.019
Speaker:
fifteen.

109
00:04:47.019 –> 00:04:48.980
Speaker:
And she was married.

110
00:04:48.980 –> 00:04:49.339
Speaker:
Wow.

111
00:04:49.339 –> 00:04:49.860
Speaker:
Okay.

112
00:04:49.860 –> 00:04:52.180
Speaker:
Um, which I just was looking at

113
00:04:52.180 –> 00:04:54.019
Speaker:
her scrapbooks and I realized

114
00:04:54.019 –> 00:04:55.560
Speaker:
that she had in her scrapbook,

115
00:04:55.560 –> 00:04:57.310
Speaker:
she had Girl Scout camp and all

116
00:04:57.310 –> 00:04:57.829
Speaker:
these pictures.

117
00:04:57.829 –> 00:05:00.550
Speaker:
And like, she literally was
married two years after this.

118
00:05:00.550 –> 00:05:02.110
Speaker:
She was just a child, right?

119
00:05:02.110 –> 00:05:04.389
Speaker:
So she was fifteen years old and

120
00:05:04.389 –> 00:05:06.709
Speaker:
she married Jeff Wilhite in

121
00:05:06.709 –> 00:05:08.430
Speaker:
nineteen seventy.

122
00:05:08.430 –> 00:05:09.990
Speaker:
In 1971, they

123
00:05:09.990 –> 00:05:11.709
Speaker:
had their first child, my older

124
00:05:11.709 –> 00:05:12.709
Speaker:
sister, Amy.

125
00:05:12.709 –> 00:05:13.629
Speaker:
Mhm.

126
00:05:13.629 –> 00:05:17.350
Speaker:
And then I was born in 1973.

127
00:05:17.350 –> 00:05:20.410
Speaker:
So when her disappearance

128
00:05:20.410 –> 00:05:22.250
Speaker:
happened, it was nineteen

129
00:05:22.250 –> 00:05:23.310
Speaker:
seventy four.

130
00:05:24.350 –> 00:05:26.350
Speaker:
She had just started working at

131
00:05:26.350 –> 00:05:30.750
Speaker:
the Windmill, which now is a

132
00:05:30.750 –> 00:05:32.529
Speaker:
Dairy Queen and the Windmill

133
00:05:32.529 –> 00:05:34.670
Speaker:
Marathon and Bakery on Highway

134
00:05:34.670 –> 00:05:35.990
Speaker:
41 in Evansville,

135
00:05:35.990 –> 00:05:37.790
Speaker:
Indiana.

136
00:05:37.790 –> 00:05:41.230
Speaker:
Um, at that time, the Windmill,
it was a motel.

137
00:05:41.230 –> 00:05:42.589
Speaker:
It had a restaurant.

138
00:05:42.589 –> 00:05:43.470
Speaker:
It had a garage.

139
00:05:43.470 –> 00:05:46.430
Speaker:
It had a service station on, on
that property.

140
00:05:46.430 –> 00:05:49.990
Speaker:
So it was kind of a popular
truck stop because it was on the

141
00:05:49.990 –> 00:05:54.629
Speaker:
highway and she had just started
working there, I think just like

142
00:05:54.629 –> 00:05:55.550
Speaker:
a week before.

143
00:05:55.550 –> 00:05:59.389
Speaker:
Not very long at all as a
waitress in the restaurant.

144
00:05:59.389 –> 00:06:05.069
Speaker:
So her and my father shared my
dad’s car.

145
00:06:05.069 –> 00:06:07.310
Speaker:
My father worked at American

146
00:06:07.310 –> 00:06:09.910
Speaker:
Dairy, which was originally in

147
00:06:09.910 –> 00:06:10.949
Speaker:
Evansville.

148
00:06:10.949 –> 00:06:12.230
Speaker:
And, um, as well.

149
00:06:12.230 –> 00:06:13.550
Speaker:
So they shared that car.

150
00:06:13.550 –> 00:06:15.870
Speaker:
So I’m under the assumption that

151
00:06:15.870 –> 00:06:17.629
Speaker:
he was already at work at

152
00:06:17.629 –> 00:06:20.230
Speaker:
American Dairy, and she dropped

153
00:06:20.230 –> 00:06:22.509
Speaker:
me and my sister off at her

154
00:06:22.509 –> 00:06:23.670
Speaker:
mother’s.

155
00:06:23.670 –> 00:06:24.430
Speaker:
Lucille.

156
00:06:24.430 –> 00:06:24.829
Speaker:
Okay.

157
00:06:24.829 –> 00:06:27.670
Speaker:
Before she went to work and they
shared a car.

158
00:06:27.670 –> 00:06:28.310
Speaker:
Correct?

159
00:06:28.310 –> 00:06:28.750
Speaker:
Is that right?

160
00:06:28.750 –> 00:06:28.990
Speaker:
Right.

161
00:06:28.990 –> 00:06:30.149
Speaker:
They shared his car.

162
00:06:30.149 –> 00:06:31.389
Speaker:
Okay, okay.

163
00:06:31.389 –> 00:06:32.910
Speaker:
Um, so that’s what she was
driving.

164
00:06:32.910 –> 00:06:38.110
Speaker:
It was a 1966
Ford Galaxie, a two door.

165
00:06:38.110 –> 00:06:43.350
Speaker:
It was some shade of green that
is still left to be determined.

166
00:06:43.350 –> 00:06:46.589
Speaker:
Some family members have said it
was teal.

167
00:06:46.589 –> 00:06:49.189
Speaker:
Other others have said it was

168
00:06:49.189 –> 00:06:51.290
Speaker:
more of a, you know, lighter

169
00:06:51.290 –> 00:06:52.069
Speaker:
green.

170
00:06:52.069 –> 00:06:55.680
Speaker:
As of right now, I don’t have
any actual photos of the car.

171
00:06:55.680 –> 00:06:59.800
Speaker:
So she dropped the kids off at
her mother, Lucille’s, and it

172
00:06:59.800 –> 00:07:01.160
Speaker:
was just a normal day.

173
00:07:01.160 –> 00:07:05.079
Speaker:
She did her laundry at her
mom’s, so she did some laundry.

174
00:07:05.079 –> 00:07:10.759
Speaker:
She put the basket of clean
clothes in the trunk of the car

175
00:07:10.759 –> 00:07:12.600
Speaker:
and went to work.

176
00:07:12.600 –> 00:07:15.319
Speaker:
She worked her shift at the
Windmill.

177
00:07:15.319 –> 00:07:17.360
Speaker:
Two things happened while she
was working.

178
00:07:17.360 –> 00:07:23.240
Speaker:
One of the things was my dad
called her and said that she

179
00:07:23.240 –> 00:07:29.000
Speaker:
could pick him up at Maple
Heights Tavern, which was there

180
00:07:29.000 –> 00:07:29.800
Speaker:
at the time.

181
00:07:29.800 –> 00:07:33.720
Speaker:
It now is Ponytail Lounge.

182
00:07:33.720 –> 00:07:34.040
Speaker:
Okay.

183
00:07:34.040 –> 00:07:36.920
Speaker:
Yes, I think that’s that’s the

184
00:07:36.920 –> 00:07:38.920
Speaker:
location where it was at that

185
00:07:38.920 –> 00:07:39.600
Speaker:
time.

186
00:07:39.600 –> 00:07:42.920
Speaker:
So she said, yes, I’ll pick you
up when I’m done working.

187
00:07:42.920 –> 00:07:44.160
Speaker:
The other thing that happened

188
00:07:44.160 –> 00:07:46.399
Speaker:
was she was seeing, and this

189
00:07:46.399 –> 00:07:48.000
Speaker:
came from the manager and a

190
00:07:48.000 –> 00:07:49.360
Speaker:
co-worker.

191
00:07:49.360 –> 00:07:52.240
Speaker:
Like a year later, when the
Indiana State Police took over

192
00:07:52.240 –> 00:07:57.970
Speaker:
the investigation, They said she
was seen speaking to a man.

193
00:07:57.970 –> 00:07:59.529
Speaker:
Um, it was raining that night.

194
00:07:59.529 –> 00:08:00.209
Speaker:
Mhm.

195
00:08:00.209 –> 00:08:03.129
Speaker:
And they overheard him telling

196
00:08:03.129 –> 00:08:07.269
Speaker:
her that he had hitchhiked there

197
00:08:07.269 –> 00:08:09.050
Speaker:
on a cattle truck from

198
00:08:09.050 –> 00:08:10.449
Speaker:
Indianapolis.

199
00:08:10.449 –> 00:08:12.970
Speaker:
And he was needing to get to
Evansville.

200
00:08:12.970 –> 00:08:15.410
Speaker:
And he asked her for a ride.

201
00:08:15.410 –> 00:08:18.250
Speaker:
One of those people said they

202
00:08:18.250 –> 00:08:19.790
Speaker:
thought that they knew each

203
00:08:19.790 –> 00:08:20.529
Speaker:
other.

204
00:08:20.529 –> 00:08:23.009
Speaker:
The other person said, I don’t
think she knew him.

205
00:08:23.009 –> 00:08:25.370
Speaker:
I think it was a stranger.

206
00:08:25.370 –> 00:08:29.449
Speaker:
She worked her shift and she
left.

207
00:08:29.449 –> 00:08:36.330
Speaker:
It is not known if she gave this
man a ride or not, but that was

208
00:08:36.330 –> 00:08:38.210
Speaker:
the last time that she was seen.

209
00:08:38.210 –> 00:08:42.049
Speaker:
And that was October fourteenth,
nineteen seventy four.

210
00:08:42.049 –> 00:08:44.529
Speaker:
So that was the last time that
she was seen.

211
00:08:45.570 –> 00:08:47.269
Speaker:
Of course, they always look at

212
00:08:47.269 –> 00:08:49.090
Speaker:
the, you know, the spouse, the

213
00:08:49.090 –> 00:08:49.610
Speaker:
boyfriend.

214
00:08:49.610 –> 00:08:51.690
Speaker:
They always look there first.

215
00:08:51.690 –> 00:08:55.450
Speaker:
So they lived in Princeton at
this time.

216
00:08:55.450 –> 00:08:58.090
Speaker:
And and I think as Gibson
County.

217
00:08:58.090 –> 00:08:59.169
Speaker:
Yes.

218
00:08:59.169 –> 00:09:05.610
Speaker:
So originally my father went to
the local police in Gibson

219
00:09:05.610 –> 00:09:11.649
Speaker:
County, and it sounds terrible,
but so my mom ran around.

220
00:09:11.649 –> 00:09:13.889
Speaker:
She would be gone for a couple
of days.

221
00:09:13.889 –> 00:09:17.929
Speaker:
It wasn’t an uncommon thing,
which I mean, by the time she

222
00:09:17.929 –> 00:09:21.490
Speaker:
was eighteen, she was married
and had two children.

223
00:09:21.490 –> 00:09:23.049
Speaker:
She never had really a
childhood.

224
00:09:23.049 –> 00:09:25.690
Speaker:
So anyway, I have no judgment
about that.

225
00:09:25.690 –> 00:09:29.610
Speaker:
Originally, my father thought
that she had left him.

226
00:09:29.610 –> 00:09:34.090
Speaker:
She thought that she had just
taken off and taken his car.

227
00:09:34.090 –> 00:09:40.370
Speaker:
And so on the sixteenth of
October, he went to the local

228
00:09:40.370 –> 00:09:45.169
Speaker:
police there to report his car
stolen, that she stole his car.

229
00:09:45.169 –> 00:09:49.529
Speaker:
And I don’t know if she was also
on the title, but it ended up

230
00:09:49.529 –> 00:09:53.259
Speaker:
where they said, well, we can’t
report the car stolen, but you

231
00:09:53.259 –> 00:09:54.500
Speaker:
can report her missing.

232
00:09:54.500 –> 00:09:56.940
Speaker:
So he reported her missing.

233
00:09:56.940 –> 00:10:00.059
Speaker:
He also said that she may be
pregnant.

234
00:10:00.059 –> 00:10:01.779
Speaker:
That was never confirmed.

235
00:10:01.779 –> 00:10:05.259
Speaker:
We. You know, there’s no way to
know, but.

236
00:10:05.259 –> 00:10:06.500
Speaker:
But he thought so because he.

237
00:10:06.500 –> 00:10:09.139
Speaker:
That’s what he had reported to
the police at the time.

238
00:10:09.139 –> 00:10:09.580
Speaker:
Yes.

239
00:10:09.580 –> 00:10:11.379
Speaker:
He thought that she might be
pregnant.

240
00:10:11.379 –> 00:10:11.980
Speaker:
Okay.

241
00:10:11.980 –> 00:10:12.820
Speaker:
Wow.

242
00:10:12.820 –> 00:10:14.320
Speaker:
And this was two days after she

243
00:10:14.320 –> 00:10:17.019
Speaker:
actually had disappeared, that

244
00:10:17.019 –> 00:10:18.759
Speaker:
he reports to the Gibson County

245
00:10:18.759 –> 00:10:20.659
Speaker:
police that she’s not come back

246
00:10:20.659 –> 00:10:21.539
Speaker:
home.

247
00:10:21.539 –> 00:10:22.019
Speaker:
Right.

248
00:10:22.019 –> 00:10:23.659
Speaker:
And you guys, were you and your

249
00:10:23.659 –> 00:10:25.179
Speaker:
sister were at your Grandma

250
00:10:25.179 –> 00:10:26.740
Speaker:
Lucille’s house?

251
00:10:26.740 –> 00:10:27.139
Speaker:
Yes.

252
00:10:27.139 –> 00:10:31.980
Speaker:
And so for that theory, for her
to have just left, you’re just

253
00:10:31.980 –> 00:10:33.179
Speaker:
left with your grandma.

254
00:10:33.179 –> 00:10:35.820
Speaker:
If we’re to believe that, she
just took off.

255
00:10:35.820 –> 00:10:36.340
Speaker:
Right.

256
00:10:36.340 –> 00:10:39.179
Speaker:
And my, um, Lucille raised me,

257
00:10:39.179 –> 00:10:41.480
Speaker:
so I. I always called her mom,

258
00:10:41.480 –> 00:10:42.220
Speaker:
right?

259
00:10:42.220 –> 00:10:44.620
Speaker:
She always said yes.

260
00:10:44.620 –> 00:10:47.820
Speaker:
She had left a couple days and
would come back.

261
00:10:47.820 –> 00:10:48.820
Speaker:
Yes, she did that.

262
00:10:48.820 –> 00:10:49.980
Speaker:
That happened.

263
00:10:49.980 –> 00:10:53.700
Speaker:
But she always said she would
never leave you girls.

264
00:10:53.700 –> 00:10:57.139
Speaker:
And like if she planned on
leaving, why would she have

265
00:10:57.139 –> 00:10:58.139
Speaker:
washed her clothes?

266
00:10:58.139 –> 00:11:02.539
Speaker:
Because my mama told me that
most of our clothes was in the

267
00:11:02.539 –> 00:11:05.340
Speaker:
trunk of the car because she had
just washed them, right?

268
00:11:05.340 –> 00:11:06.500
Speaker:
That doesn’t make any sense.

269
00:11:06.500 –> 00:11:06.740
Speaker:
Yeah.

270
00:11:06.740 –> 00:11:09.019
Speaker:
It doesn’t it doesn’t make any
sense.

271
00:11:09.019 –> 00:11:13.059
Speaker:
So that is how that all started.

272
00:11:13.059 –> 00:11:15.820
Speaker:
So she was nineteen.

273
00:11:15.820 –> 00:11:19.779
Speaker:
She would have been turning
twenty like a month later.

274
00:11:20.820 –> 00:11:23.419
Speaker:
The the employees at that she

275
00:11:23.419 –> 00:11:24.500
Speaker:
worked with at the windmill

276
00:11:24.500 –> 00:11:25.820
Speaker:
restaurant.

277
00:11:25.820 –> 00:11:29.440
Speaker:
They thought that she might know
that man that she was talking

278
00:11:29.440 –> 00:11:32.299
Speaker:
to, do you know, was he talking
to her in the restaurant or were

279
00:11:32.299 –> 00:11:33.179
Speaker:
they in the parking lot?

280
00:11:33.179 –> 00:11:35.820
Speaker:
Or do you know where they were
talking?

281
00:11:35.820 –> 00:11:38.139
Speaker:
It was in the restaurant.

282
00:11:38.139 –> 00:11:38.460
Speaker:
Okay.

283
00:11:38.460 –> 00:11:42.059
Speaker:
And I wonder what made them
think or what made one of them

284
00:11:42.059 –> 00:11:44.299
Speaker:
think that, that she knew him.

285
00:11:44.299 –> 00:11:46.139
Speaker:
I, you know, it’s hard to tell.

286
00:11:46.139 –> 00:11:48.659
Speaker:
Waitresses are typically just

287
00:11:48.659 –> 00:11:50.210
Speaker:
friendly because that’s part of

288
00:11:50.210 –> 00:11:50.789
Speaker:
their job.

289
00:11:50.789 –> 00:11:53.610
Speaker:
So it could have been that
aspect of it made it look like

290
00:11:53.610 –> 00:11:59.549
Speaker:
she knew him, and he was just
like an average looking man with

291
00:11:59.549 –> 00:12:04.309
Speaker:
dark hair, average height, like
there’s there was no outstanding

292
00:12:04.309 –> 00:12:07.549
Speaker:
characteristics that made him
stand out in any way.

293
00:12:07.549 –> 00:12:10.309
Speaker:
The story is that he had hitched

294
00:12:10.309 –> 00:12:12.309
Speaker:
a ride from a cattle truck down

295
00:12:12.309 –> 00:12:15.149
Speaker:
from Indianapolis, and he was

296
00:12:15.149 –> 00:12:16.470
Speaker:
somehow ended up there, and he

297
00:12:16.470 –> 00:12:17.889
Speaker:
asked for a ride somewhere to

298
00:12:17.889 –> 00:12:19.029
Speaker:
Evansville from.

299
00:12:19.029 –> 00:12:21.730
Speaker:
And you’re apparently your mom

300
00:12:21.730 –> 00:12:23.549
Speaker:
supposedly offered to give him a

301
00:12:23.549 –> 00:12:24.789
Speaker:
ride and.

302
00:12:24.789 –> 00:12:27.110
Speaker:
But no one saw her take him
anywhere.

303
00:12:27.110 –> 00:12:29.029
Speaker:
No one saw him get into her car
or anything like that.

304
00:12:29.029 –> 00:12:30.909
Speaker:
That’s just kind of a theory,
right?

305
00:12:30.909 –> 00:12:31.350
Speaker:
Right.

306
00:12:31.350 –> 00:12:34.309
Speaker:
It’s not known if she agreed to
give him a ride at all.

307
00:12:34.309 –> 00:12:36.950
Speaker:
It’s not known if she agreed to
give him a ride.

308
00:12:36.950 –> 00:12:37.909
Speaker:
It’s unknown.

309
00:12:37.909 –> 00:12:41.350
Speaker:
If he got in the car.

310
00:12:41.350 –> 00:12:43.269
Speaker:
They it wasn’t seen.

311
00:12:43.269 –> 00:12:45.990
Speaker:
At least if it was seen, it was

312
00:12:45.990 –> 00:12:48.610
Speaker:
seen by someone who never came

313
00:12:48.610 –> 00:12:49.389
Speaker:
forward.

314
00:12:49.389 –> 00:12:51.649
Speaker:
Did the police ever follow up on

315
00:12:51.649 –> 00:12:54.070
Speaker:
cattle truck drivers from

316
00:12:54.070 –> 00:12:54.789
Speaker:
Indianapolis?

317
00:12:54.789 –> 00:12:55.389
Speaker:
Did they?

318
00:12:55.389 –> 00:12:57.789
Speaker:
Have they talked to people who
may have seen this guy or given

319
00:12:57.789 –> 00:12:58.990
Speaker:
him a ride?

320
00:12:58.990 –> 00:12:59.870
Speaker:
They did.

321
00:12:59.870 –> 00:13:03.330
Speaker:
Um, so in nineteen seventy six

322
00:13:03.330 –> 00:13:06.029
Speaker:
was when this case was taken

323
00:13:06.029 –> 00:13:07.629
Speaker:
over by the Indiana State

324
00:13:07.629 –> 00:13:08.389
Speaker:
Police.

325
00:13:08.389 –> 00:13:09.269
Speaker:
Okay.

326
00:13:09.269 –> 00:13:10.750
Speaker:
From my understanding, I don’t

327
00:13:10.750 –> 00:13:12.370
Speaker:
think there was much done before

328
00:13:12.370 –> 00:13:12.990
Speaker:
that.

329
00:13:12.990 –> 00:13:16.909
Speaker:
Um, I mean, this was in nineteen
seventy four.

330
00:13:16.909 –> 00:13:20.549
Speaker:
Missing persons cases were very
different back then.

331
00:13:20.549 –> 00:13:21.629
Speaker:
Well, she’s an adult.

332
00:13:21.629 –> 00:13:26.909
Speaker:
She can leave if she wants to,
but my mom insisted that she

333
00:13:26.909 –> 00:13:27.789
Speaker:
would not have.

334
00:13:27.789 –> 00:13:28.870
Speaker:
She would not have left.

335
00:13:28.870 –> 00:13:30.549
Speaker:
She may be left on her own, but

336
00:13:30.549 –> 00:13:32.629
Speaker:
she was prevented from coming

337
00:13:32.629 –> 00:13:32.870
Speaker:
back.

338
00:13:32.870 –> 00:13:34.990
Speaker:
That’s what she’s always
believed.

339
00:13:34.990 –> 00:13:37.070
Speaker:
And I do believe it too, because

340
00:13:37.070 –> 00:13:39.710
Speaker:
even and I’ve talked about this

341
00:13:39.710 –> 00:13:42.169
Speaker:
before, but I’ll never like

342
00:13:42.169 –> 00:13:44.509
Speaker:
release the actual a copy of the

343
00:13:44.509 –> 00:13:44.789
Speaker:
letter.

344
00:13:44.789 –> 00:13:46.230
Speaker:
But there was a letter found

345
00:13:46.230 –> 00:13:49.100
Speaker:
that was from My mother, Debbie,

346
00:13:49.100 –> 00:13:50.919
Speaker:
to another man in the

347
00:13:50.919 –> 00:13:52.279
Speaker:
neighborhood.

348
00:13:52.279 –> 00:13:54.519
Speaker:
And it was a love letter.

349
00:13:54.519 –> 00:13:57.820
Speaker:
But even in a love letter to

350
00:13:57.820 –> 00:14:00.240
Speaker:
another man, she had talked

351
00:14:00.240 –> 00:14:01.919
Speaker:
about how she had had to go to

352
00:14:01.919 –> 00:14:02.840
Speaker:
the dentist.

353
00:14:02.840 –> 00:14:05.759
Speaker:
She had to get a tooth pulled,
and she was going to make sure

354
00:14:05.759 –> 00:14:09.200
Speaker:
that her daughters always took
care of their teeth and didn’t

355
00:14:09.200 –> 00:14:10.720
Speaker:
have to go through this.

356
00:14:10.720 –> 00:14:14.440
Speaker:
So even speaking to someone
else, she was thinking of her

357
00:14:14.440 –> 00:14:16.879
Speaker:
daughters, me and my sister.

358
00:14:16.879 –> 00:14:19.340
Speaker:
Um, so I too don’t believe that

359
00:14:19.340 –> 00:14:21.200
Speaker:
she just didn’t come back on her

360
00:14:21.200 –> 00:14:21.440
Speaker:
own.

361
00:14:21.440 –> 00:14:26.600
Speaker:
She may have went somewhere
after work, but for her to not

362
00:14:26.600 –> 00:14:31.639
Speaker:
come back completely, something
happened to her or to to phone

363
00:14:31.639 –> 00:14:34.120
Speaker:
or to write a letter or
something to her mother.

364
00:14:34.120 –> 00:14:35.580
Speaker:
If she knew that you guys or to

365
00:14:35.580 –> 00:14:37.480
Speaker:
her husband, if she knew that,

366
00:14:37.480 –> 00:14:38.840
Speaker:
you know, hey, this is I’ve

367
00:14:38.840 –> 00:14:41.399
Speaker:
decided to do X, Y, Z and sorry

368
00:14:41.399 –> 00:14:41.759
Speaker:
about that.

369
00:14:41.759 –> 00:14:45.200
Speaker:
But she never did call or write
a letter or anything.

370
00:14:45.200 –> 00:14:48.090
Speaker:
No. And so the Indiana State
Police.

371
00:14:48.090 –> 00:14:53.450
Speaker:
It got to them in May of
nineteen seventy six.

372
00:14:53.450 –> 00:14:55.850
Speaker:
Um, is when the Indiana State
Police took it over.

373
00:14:55.850 –> 00:15:00.929
Speaker:
And they did look into the
cattle truck drivers from that

374
00:15:00.929 –> 00:15:04.889
Speaker:
area that would have went
through, you know, that from

375
00:15:04.889 –> 00:15:07.049
Speaker:
Indianapolis through that area.

376
00:15:07.049 –> 00:15:12.570
Speaker:
And they found two one of them
they talked to and the driver

377
00:15:12.570 –> 00:15:14.529
Speaker:
said, no, I didn’t.

378
00:15:14.529 –> 00:15:15.889
Speaker:
I don’t pick up hitchhikers

379
00:15:15.889 –> 00:15:18.009
Speaker:
because it’s against against the

380
00:15:18.009 –> 00:15:18.649
Speaker:
rules.

381
00:15:18.649 –> 00:15:19.809
Speaker:
It’s against policy.

382
00:15:19.809 –> 00:15:20.690
Speaker:
Right.

383
00:15:20.690 –> 00:15:23.610
Speaker:
Whether that was true or not,
that’s what he would say, right?

384
00:15:23.610 –> 00:15:23.889
Speaker:
Right.

385
00:15:23.889 –> 00:15:25.409
Speaker:
He was against policy.

386
00:15:25.409 –> 00:15:26.809
Speaker:
You don’t you wouldn’t tell
anybody.

387
00:15:26.809 –> 00:15:27.169
Speaker:
Right.

388
00:15:27.169 –> 00:15:30.169
Speaker:
The other one, they said he had
moved.

389
00:15:30.169 –> 00:15:35.210
Speaker:
Um and okay, they I don’t know
how how hard they looked for

390
00:15:35.210 –> 00:15:39.330
Speaker:
him, but they, they didn’t speak
to the other one.

391
00:15:39.330 –> 00:15:40.850
Speaker:
This is this is the frustrating

392
00:15:40.850 –> 00:15:41.970
Speaker:
part of all of this because it’s

393
00:15:41.970 –> 00:15:43.009
Speaker:
like, you wonder how because you

394
00:15:43.009 –> 00:15:44.409
Speaker:
always kind of assume that with

395
00:15:44.409 –> 00:15:46.389
Speaker:
these investigations that every,

396
00:15:46.389 –> 00:15:47.730
Speaker:
rabbit hole has been jumped

397
00:15:47.730 –> 00:15:47.970
Speaker:
down.

398
00:15:47.970 –> 00:15:49.330
Speaker:
And then you hear things like
that.

399
00:15:49.330 –> 00:15:52.850
Speaker:
Like they didn’t even talk to
one of the two cattle truck

400
00:15:52.850 –> 00:15:56.370
Speaker:
drivers who may have given this
guy a ride.

401
00:15:56.370 –> 00:15:57.649
Speaker:
Yeah, it’s kind of that’s,

402
00:15:57.649 –> 00:15:59.049
Speaker:
that’s got to be frustrating on

403
00:15:59.049 –> 00:16:00.210
Speaker:
your end.

404
00:16:00.210 –> 00:16:04.769
Speaker:
And it’s even like it gets more
frustrating, um, as it goes,

405
00:16:04.769 –> 00:16:08.269
Speaker:
because this happened when I was
eighteen months old and now I am

406
00:16:08.269 –> 00:16:09.889
Speaker:
now fifty three years old.

407
00:16:09.889 –> 00:16:12.889
Speaker:
So it’s been over fifty years.

408
00:16:12.889 –> 00:16:16.009
Speaker:
So the Indiana State Police used
to not have a cold case unit.

409
00:16:16.009 –> 00:16:17.529
Speaker:
They have a cold case unit.

410
00:16:17.529 –> 00:16:18.450
Speaker:
Now that is new.

411
00:16:18.450 –> 00:16:21.570
Speaker:
I think as of last year it’s
very new.

412
00:16:21.570 –> 00:16:23.970
Speaker:
So the detective that has my

413
00:16:23.970 –> 00:16:25.889
Speaker:
mother’s case knows me by name

414
00:16:25.889 –> 00:16:27.409
Speaker:
and very familiar with me

415
00:16:27.409 –> 00:16:29.549
Speaker:
because I email her

416
00:16:29.549 –> 00:16:30.730
Speaker:
periodically.

417
00:16:30.730 –> 00:16:31.649
Speaker:
Right.

418
00:16:31.649 –> 00:16:34.490
Speaker:
I’ve asked for the case file a
couple of times.

419
00:16:34.490 –> 00:16:36.730
Speaker:
I put in the, the, the, the

420
00:16:36.730 –> 00:16:37.929
Speaker:
official way that you put in a

421
00:16:37.929 –> 00:16:39.289
Speaker:
request.

422
00:16:39.289 –> 00:16:41.889
Speaker:
And if you go by the Indiana

423
00:16:41.889 –> 00:16:44.210
Speaker:
State Police, like their actual

424
00:16:44.210 –> 00:16:46.899
Speaker:
like written policies, rules,

425
00:16:46.899 –> 00:16:48.500
Speaker:
whatever.

426
00:16:48.500 –> 00:16:52.019
Speaker:
It’s all at their discretion.

427
00:16:52.019 –> 00:16:54.320
Speaker:
If they what they want to like,

428
00:16:54.320 –> 00:16:55.500
Speaker:
what they would want to give me

429
00:16:55.500 –> 00:16:56.759
Speaker:
out of the case file, it’s at

430
00:16:56.759 –> 00:16:58.220
Speaker:
their discretion.

431
00:16:58.220 –> 00:17:01.659
Speaker:
There’s actually no proof or

432
00:17:01.659 –> 00:17:03.419
Speaker:
evidence that any crime has even

433
00:17:03.419 –> 00:17:04.900
Speaker:
been committed.

434
00:17:04.900 –> 00:17:07.319
Speaker:
I don’t see how them giving me

435
00:17:07.319 –> 00:17:09.059
Speaker:
more information out of the case

436
00:17:09.059 –> 00:17:11.420
Speaker:
file would any way hinder their

437
00:17:11.420 –> 00:17:12.819
Speaker:
investigation.

438
00:17:12.819 –> 00:17:13.619
Speaker:
Fifty years later?

439
00:17:13.619 –> 00:17:14.420
Speaker:
I don’t think so.

440
00:17:14.420 –> 00:17:14.819
Speaker:
Right.

441
00:17:14.819 –> 00:17:16.180
Speaker:
Because what are they?

442
00:17:16.180 –> 00:17:19.140
Speaker:
The last thing they looked at, I
gave them.

443
00:17:19.140 –> 00:17:19.859
Speaker:
Right.

444
00:17:19.859 –> 00:17:20.460
Speaker:
Okay.

445
00:17:20.460 –> 00:17:22.460
Speaker:
I gave them okay.

446
00:17:22.460 –> 00:17:28.859
Speaker:
Because someone my my newest
campaign is looking for the car.

447
00:17:28.859 –> 00:17:31.859
Speaker:
It’s easier to find the car than
it is to find her.

448
00:17:31.859 –> 00:17:34.859
Speaker:
So my newest campaign is I found

449
00:17:34.859 –> 00:17:38.819
Speaker:
out exactly the the type of car,

450
00:17:38.819 –> 00:17:40.180
Speaker:
the color I’m still unsure

451
00:17:40.180 –> 00:17:42.960
Speaker:
about, but the actual car I. I

452
00:17:42.960 –> 00:17:45.619
Speaker:
know what the actual car body

453
00:17:45.619 –> 00:17:46.619
Speaker:
looked like.

454
00:17:46.619 –> 00:17:48.059
Speaker:
And we know the year.

455
00:17:48.059 –> 00:17:53.059
Speaker:
Um, we know what the license
plate was and I have been have

456
00:17:53.059 –> 00:17:57.140
Speaker:
been posting on her Facebook
page missing Debra Willhite.

457
00:17:57.140 –> 00:17:58.380
Speaker:
Everybody wants to help.

458
00:17:58.380 –> 00:18:01.579
Speaker:
This is how you can help look
for the car.

459
00:18:01.579 –> 00:18:05.900
Speaker:
Like it could be of course, a
body of water could be in a body

460
00:18:05.900 –> 00:18:09.740
Speaker:
of water which chaos divers has.

461
00:18:09.740 –> 00:18:10.380
Speaker:
God bless them.

462
00:18:10.380 –> 00:18:12.099
Speaker:
They have excuse me.

463
00:18:12.099 –> 00:18:13.859
Speaker:
Started doing what?

464
00:18:13.859 –> 00:18:14.539
Speaker:
Well, they’ve done.

465
00:18:14.539 –> 00:18:15.940
Speaker:
They’ve been doing water
searches.

466
00:18:15.940 –> 00:18:17.299
Speaker:
They’ve found like five people

467
00:18:17.299 –> 00:18:18.220
Speaker:
that have been missing for

468
00:18:18.220 –> 00:18:18.539
Speaker:
years.

469
00:18:18.539 –> 00:18:19.980
Speaker:
But I follow them on now.

470
00:18:19.980 –> 00:18:22.940
Speaker:
They’re basically a volunteer
group that does sonar searches

471
00:18:22.940 –> 00:18:24.019
Speaker:
of bodies of water.

472
00:18:24.019 –> 00:18:27.599
Speaker:
They, they want to help find
people who are missing, um, or

473
00:18:27.599 –> 00:18:30.819
Speaker:
basically they find cars and
then hope, hope that people are

474
00:18:30.819 –> 00:18:33.180
Speaker:
in there, that they can solve
some of these cases.

475
00:18:33.180 –> 00:18:35.859
Speaker:
They do a great job and they do
it.

476
00:18:35.859 –> 00:18:37.500
Speaker:
They ask nothing.

477
00:18:37.500 –> 00:18:39.339
Speaker:
They ask ask nothing of you.

478
00:18:39.339 –> 00:18:40.500
Speaker:
They do it one hundred percent.

479
00:18:40.500 –> 00:18:41.920
Speaker:
It’s one hundred percent

480
00:18:41.920 –> 00:18:44.670
Speaker:
Fund-Raising Donations now that

481
00:18:44.670 –> 00:18:46.309
Speaker:
came out here in September of

482
00:18:46.309 –> 00:18:47.829
Speaker:
twenty twenty five to do a

483
00:18:47.829 –> 00:18:48.150
Speaker:
search.

484
00:18:48.150 –> 00:18:50.349
Speaker:
And I know they looked a lot
around the bluegrass, Fish and

485
00:18:50.349 –> 00:18:52.710
Speaker:
Wildlife area and an area.

486
00:18:52.710 –> 00:18:53.670
Speaker:
They were looking for what was

487
00:18:53.670 –> 00:18:54.849
Speaker:
called, I think you call it the

488
00:18:54.849 –> 00:18:55.589
Speaker:
Duck Pond.

489
00:18:55.589 –> 00:18:56.950
Speaker:
And I know you did a series on

490
00:18:56.950 –> 00:18:59.289
Speaker:
YouTube where you talk about

491
00:18:59.289 –> 00:19:00.509
Speaker:
it’s called the Duck Pond

492
00:19:00.509 –> 00:19:01.630
Speaker:
Diaries.

493
00:19:01.630 –> 00:19:02.529
Speaker:
Do you want to explain a little

494
00:19:02.529 –> 00:19:04.289
Speaker:
bit about about the duck pond

495
00:19:04.289 –> 00:19:05.230
Speaker:
theory?

496
00:19:05.230 –> 00:19:05.950
Speaker:
Sure.

497
00:19:05.950 –> 00:19:07.750
Speaker:
Um, that’s one of the many
theories.

498
00:19:07.750 –> 00:19:11.150
Speaker:
So it comes from facts though.

499
00:19:11.150 –> 00:19:15.990
Speaker:
Like I had said, my mother
Debbie had two younger sisters.

500
00:19:15.990 –> 00:19:18.390
Speaker:
So at some point after she had

501
00:19:18.390 –> 00:19:20.789
Speaker:
disappeared, one of the sisters

502
00:19:20.789 –> 00:19:23.269
Speaker:
had a friend over, um, spending

503
00:19:23.269 –> 00:19:24.269
Speaker:
the night.

504
00:19:24.269 –> 00:19:25.910
Speaker:
And at some point through the

505
00:19:25.910 –> 00:19:28.269
Speaker:
night, one of Debbie’s younger

506
00:19:28.269 –> 00:19:31.710
Speaker:
sisters came to her mother

507
00:19:31.710 –> 00:19:33.430
Speaker:
because her friend was just

508
00:19:33.430 –> 00:19:36.329
Speaker:
freaking out and crying and

509
00:19:36.329 –> 00:19:38.630
Speaker:
talking about some craziness or

510
00:19:38.630 –> 00:19:39.069
Speaker:
whatever.

511
00:19:39.069 –> 00:19:44.309
Speaker:
So mom went and spoke to her and
she said that the friend of W

512
00:19:44.309 –> 00:19:50.109
Speaker:
sister said that her father had
told her that he had shot Debby

513
00:19:50.109 –> 00:19:54.130
Speaker:
in the head, put her body in the
trunk of the car and shot gunned

514
00:19:54.130 –> 00:19:58.349
Speaker:
the car into a stripper pit that
was filled with water that was

515
00:19:58.349 –> 00:20:00.430
Speaker:
nicknamed the Duck Pond.

516
00:20:00.430 –> 00:20:03.109
Speaker:
Okay, her father, which I’m not

517
00:20:03.109 –> 00:20:04.150
Speaker:
going to say names because it

518
00:20:04.150 –> 00:20:04.549
Speaker:
doesn’t.

519
00:20:04.549 –> 00:20:06.269
Speaker:
I don’t think it’s necessary.

520
00:20:06.269 –> 00:20:07.829
Speaker:
He has passed away.

521
00:20:07.829 –> 00:20:09.549
Speaker:
She was a child when it
happened.

522
00:20:09.549 –> 00:20:12.109
Speaker:
She was interviewed later as an

523
00:20:12.109 –> 00:20:13.990
Speaker:
adult by the Indiana State

524
00:20:13.990 –> 00:20:14.710
Speaker:
Police.

525
00:20:14.710 –> 00:20:15.549
Speaker:
She didn’t.

526
00:20:15.549 –> 00:20:17.950
Speaker:
You know, she doesn’t know if
it’s true.

527
00:20:17.950 –> 00:20:18.829
Speaker:
She doesn’t know what the

528
00:20:18.829 –> 00:20:21.430
Speaker:
location is, actually is if it

529
00:20:21.430 –> 00:20:22.309
Speaker:
is true.

530
00:20:22.309 –> 00:20:25.789
Speaker:
He was like, not a good guy.

531
00:20:25.789 –> 00:20:27.230
Speaker:
I think he was an alcoholic.

532
00:20:27.230 –> 00:20:28.509
Speaker:
He probably did drugs.

533
00:20:28.509 –> 00:20:33.990
Speaker:
He wasn’t the most trustworthy,
you know, person to go by.

534
00:20:33.990 –> 00:20:39.910
Speaker:
So my mom, Lucille, said that
she, after hearing that, called

535
00:20:39.910 –> 00:20:45.039
Speaker:
the police and told them what
she had been told.

536
00:20:45.039 –> 00:20:48.160
Speaker:
So the father also told his
daughter that I will kill you

537
00:20:48.160 –> 00:20:49.640
Speaker:
too, if you tell anyone.

538
00:20:49.640 –> 00:20:50.519
Speaker:
Oh, wow.

539
00:20:50.519 –> 00:20:51.319
Speaker:
Okay.

540
00:20:51.319 –> 00:20:54.680
Speaker:
And how old was the daughter
when he was telling her this?

541
00:20:54.680 –> 00:20:57.880
Speaker:
She was probably around twelve
ish.

542
00:20:57.880 –> 00:20:58.160
Speaker:
Twelve.

543
00:20:58.160 –> 00:20:59.160
Speaker:
Okay.

544
00:20:59.160 –> 00:21:00.319
Speaker:
So the duck pond.

545
00:21:00.319 –> 00:21:07.779
Speaker:
So that’s always been my nemesis
because I oh, this is like, oh,

546
00:21:07.779 –> 00:21:08.599
Speaker:
the duck pond.

547
00:21:08.599 –> 00:21:11.759
Speaker:
Okay, let me try to keep things
straight because there’s,

548
00:21:11.759 –> 00:21:14.640
Speaker:
there’s current stuff in the
duck pond also.

549
00:21:14.640 –> 00:21:16.319
Speaker:
So my mom, Lucille said that she

550
00:21:16.319 –> 00:21:17.440
Speaker:
called the police and told them

551
00:21:17.440 –> 00:21:18.680
Speaker:
and that she never heard

552
00:21:18.680 –> 00:21:19.200
Speaker:
anything.

553
00:21:19.200 –> 00:21:20.640
Speaker:
So she figured that they looked

554
00:21:20.640 –> 00:21:22.839
Speaker:
nothing was there and it was

555
00:21:22.839 –> 00:21:23.640
Speaker:
done.

556
00:21:23.640 –> 00:21:32.920
Speaker:
So in nineteen ninety four, I
was about twenty ish and I had

557
00:21:32.920 –> 00:21:38.359
Speaker:
my first child, and he was about
the same age as I was.

558
00:21:38.359 –> 00:21:40.890
Speaker:
Um, at that point when my mother
disappeared.

559
00:21:40.890 –> 00:21:43.970
Speaker:
So it really it really started

560
00:21:43.970 –> 00:21:45.930
Speaker:
me getting thinking about that

561
00:21:45.930 –> 00:21:47.329
Speaker:
because I had a child that was

562
00:21:47.329 –> 00:21:49.450
Speaker:
the same age as I was or another

563
00:21:49.450 –> 00:21:50.049
Speaker:
disappeared.

564
00:21:50.049 –> 00:21:52.730
Speaker:
So I really started digging into
it.

565
00:21:52.730 –> 00:21:56.589
Speaker:
I wrote to all the places I

566
00:21:56.589 –> 00:21:58.970
Speaker:
tried to get media coverage or

567
00:21:58.970 –> 00:21:59.450
Speaker:
whatever.

568
00:21:59.450 –> 00:22:02.630
Speaker:
So the courier and Press, um,

569
00:22:02.630 –> 00:22:04.089
Speaker:
Evansville Courier and Press

570
00:22:04.089 –> 00:22:07.690
Speaker:
ended up doing a full page cover

571
00:22:07.690 –> 00:22:09.809
Speaker:
story about my mother’s

572
00:22:09.809 –> 00:22:10.650
Speaker:
disappearance.

573
00:22:10.650 –> 00:22:15.650
Speaker:
And in the process, they put me
in touch with, um, the detective

574
00:22:15.650 –> 00:22:19.650
Speaker:
at Indiana State Police that was
on my mother’s case.

575
00:22:19.650 –> 00:22:20.609
Speaker:
Okay.

576
00:22:20.609 –> 00:22:25.750
Speaker:
And he let me in, my mom,
Lucille, go in to the Evansville

577
00:22:25.750 –> 00:22:30.410
Speaker:
post and sit down and read the
whole case file.

578
00:22:30.410 –> 00:22:31.210
Speaker:
Okay.

579
00:22:31.210 –> 00:22:31.490
Speaker:
Wow.

580
00:22:31.490 –> 00:22:32.650
Speaker:
Read all of it.

581
00:22:32.650 –> 00:22:35.089
Speaker:
In hindsight, I wish I would
have taken notes.

582
00:22:35.089 –> 00:22:35.930
Speaker:
You can’t.

583
00:22:35.930 –> 00:22:37.930
Speaker:
They won’t give you copies.

584
00:22:37.930 –> 00:22:39.089
Speaker:
There’s so many things that I

585
00:22:39.089 –> 00:22:40.730
Speaker:
saw that I. I don’t remember

586
00:22:40.730 –> 00:22:42.450
Speaker:
anymore, but one of the things

587
00:22:42.450 –> 00:22:44.329
Speaker:
that was not in the case file

588
00:22:44.329 –> 00:22:45.690
Speaker:
was anything about the duck

589
00:22:45.690 –> 00:22:46.369
Speaker:
pond.

590
00:22:46.369 –> 00:22:47.569
Speaker:
Nothing.

591
00:22:47.569 –> 00:22:49.730
Speaker:
Not that she called and told
them.

592
00:22:49.730 –> 00:22:51.970
Speaker:
Not that it had been
investigated.

593
00:22:51.970 –> 00:22:53.849
Speaker:
Absolutely nothing.

594
00:22:53.849 –> 00:22:56.009
Speaker:
How could that not be in the
case file?

595
00:22:56.009 –> 00:22:58.210
Speaker:
That’s a pretty significant tip.

596
00:22:58.210 –> 00:22:59.450
Speaker:
That’s still a question.

597
00:22:59.450 –> 00:23:00.609
Speaker:
That’s still a question.

598
00:23:00.609 –> 00:23:04.970
Speaker:
So the sergeant, the detective
at that time, he said if we

599
00:23:04.970 –> 00:23:08.289
Speaker:
would have received it, if I
would have received it, it would

600
00:23:08.289 –> 00:23:09.930
Speaker:
be in the case file.

601
00:23:09.930 –> 00:23:12.170
Speaker:
So I don’t know what happened.

602
00:23:12.170 –> 00:23:14.009
Speaker:
Maybe someone took a message and

603
00:23:14.009 –> 00:23:15.609
Speaker:
it didn’t get to who it was

604
00:23:15.609 –> 00:23:16.170
Speaker:
supposed.

605
00:23:16.170 –> 00:23:17.089
Speaker:
I don’t know.

606
00:23:17.089 –> 00:23:18.329
Speaker:
But when your when your mom or

607
00:23:18.329 –> 00:23:20.930
Speaker:
when Lucille called the Gibson

608
00:23:20.930 –> 00:23:22.130
Speaker:
County police, it was like the

609
00:23:22.130 –> 00:23:22.690
Speaker:
city police.

610
00:23:22.690 –> 00:23:24.250
Speaker:
She called, not the Indiana
State Police.

611
00:23:24.250 –> 00:23:26.450
Speaker:
I’m assuming just nine one one
or whatever.

612
00:23:26.450 –> 00:23:27.769
Speaker:
So it’s possible they never

613
00:23:27.769 –> 00:23:28.890
Speaker:
relayed that message or

614
00:23:28.890 –> 00:23:30.329
Speaker:
information to the Indiana State

615
00:23:30.329 –> 00:23:31.529
Speaker:
Police.

616
00:23:31.529 –> 00:23:33.089
Speaker:
I don’t know who she told.

617
00:23:33.089 –> 00:23:33.490
Speaker:
Okay.

618
00:23:33.490 –> 00:23:37.289
Speaker:
Um, and she’s she’s passed away
in twenty nineteen, so I can’t

619
00:23:37.289 –> 00:23:41.740
Speaker:
ask her any more questions, but,
um, she said that she called and

620
00:23:41.740 –> 00:23:44.380
Speaker:
asked for him specifically is
what she said.

621
00:23:44.380 –> 00:23:45.019
Speaker:
Okay.

622
00:23:45.019 –> 00:23:47.839
Speaker:
So it must have been after May

623
00:23:47.839 –> 00:23:49.539
Speaker:
of seventy six when that

624
00:23:49.539 –> 00:23:49.980
Speaker:
happened.

625
00:23:49.980 –> 00:23:51.660
Speaker:
So at that time.

626
00:23:51.660 –> 00:23:53.940
Speaker:
So again, this is nineteen
ninety four.

627
00:23:53.940 –> 00:23:57.180
Speaker:
And I relayed to him everything
that Lucille had told me.

628
00:23:57.180 –> 00:24:01.099
Speaker:
Of course, she was hot because
she insisted.

629
00:24:01.099 –> 00:24:03.900
Speaker:
I told you, um, they looked into

630
00:24:03.900 –> 00:24:06.359
Speaker:
it then and at that time he

631
00:24:06.359 –> 00:24:08.660
Speaker:
said, we found where the

632
00:24:08.660 –> 00:24:10.339
Speaker:
location, supposedly where the

633
00:24:10.339 –> 00:24:11.500
Speaker:
location is.

634
00:24:11.500 –> 00:24:13.819
Speaker:
Okay, we know where the duck
pond is.

635
00:24:13.819 –> 00:24:19.700
Speaker:
It had been drained of the water
in the eighties and filled in,

636
00:24:19.700 –> 00:24:24.299
Speaker:
and when it was drained, there
was like fifteen feet of silt at

637
00:24:24.299 –> 00:24:26.539
Speaker:
the bottom that would have
covered the car.

638
00:24:26.539 –> 00:24:28.660
Speaker:
And then multiple detectives

639
00:24:28.660 –> 00:24:30.539
Speaker:
later, like I spoke, I’ve spoken

640
00:24:30.539 –> 00:24:31.420
Speaker:
to everyone.

641
00:24:31.420 –> 00:24:35.220
Speaker:
As the years go by, I don’t even
remember how what number we’re

642
00:24:35.220 –> 00:24:38.819
Speaker:
on now, but there was one that
was going to take me back to

643
00:24:38.819 –> 00:24:39.819
Speaker:
where the duck pond was.

644
00:24:39.819 –> 00:24:41.700
Speaker:
So this was after the first
detective.

645
00:24:41.700 –> 00:24:45.099
Speaker:
He said he was going to take me
to where the duck pond was, the

646
00:24:45.099 –> 00:24:46.339
Speaker:
area which he’s.

647
00:24:46.339 –> 00:24:47.819
Speaker:
Which he said existed like.

648
00:24:47.819 –> 00:24:49.339
Speaker:
He acknowledged that it exists.

649
00:24:49.339 –> 00:24:50.980
Speaker:
He knows that duck pond is a
thing.

650
00:24:50.980 –> 00:24:51.420
Speaker:
Okay.

651
00:24:51.420 –> 00:24:51.779
Speaker:
Yes.

652
00:24:51.779 –> 00:24:55.380
Speaker:
I was told that it was found and
they know where it was.

653
00:24:55.380 –> 00:24:57.380
Speaker:
But there’s no evidence.

654
00:24:57.380 –> 00:25:00.180
Speaker:
Um, there’s no facts, there’s no
lead, there’s no evidence.

655
00:25:00.180 –> 00:25:03.779
Speaker:
So that they would never, like,
excavate the area.

656
00:25:03.779 –> 00:25:04.980
Speaker:
I mean, what evidence would
there be?

657
00:25:04.980 –> 00:25:06.059
Speaker:
I mean, there’s a tip.

658
00:25:06.059 –> 00:25:08.220
Speaker:
You have a tip saying this is
what happened.

659
00:25:08.220 –> 00:25:10.619
Speaker:
And then what, what what other
evidence do you need a bumper

660
00:25:10.619 –> 00:25:11.980
Speaker:
sticking out of the the ground.

661
00:25:11.980 –> 00:25:13.740
Speaker:
I mean, what yeah, I’m getting
there.

662
00:25:13.740 –> 00:25:17.819
Speaker:
So they, so they, so they said
they knew where it was.

663
00:25:17.819 –> 00:25:19.859
Speaker:
They multiple people.

664
00:25:19.859 –> 00:25:21.500
Speaker:
This is the second detective now

665
00:25:21.500 –> 00:25:23.859
Speaker:
that told me they knew where it

666
00:25:23.859 –> 00:25:26.099
Speaker:
was, and they were going to take

667
00:25:26.099 –> 00:25:28.359
Speaker:
me to see it where it was by

668
00:25:28.359 –> 00:25:28.900
Speaker:
this time.

669
00:25:28.900 –> 00:25:33.259
Speaker:
This is like late nineties
because I was still living in

670
00:25:33.259 –> 00:25:34.740
Speaker:
Evansville at the time.

671
00:25:34.740 –> 00:25:35.980
Speaker:
Um, but everything there was

672
00:25:35.980 –> 00:25:38.069
Speaker:
always an excuse like, oh, it’s

673
00:25:38.069 –> 00:25:39.529
Speaker:
too muddy, we can’t get back

674
00:25:39.529 –> 00:25:41.269
Speaker:
there right now, blah, blah,

675
00:25:41.269 –> 00:25:41.549
Speaker:
blah.

676
00:25:41.549 –> 00:25:45.710
Speaker:
They never told me like what
area or anything.

677
00:25:45.710 –> 00:25:47.869
Speaker:
So I never got to see it.

678
00:25:47.869 –> 00:25:52.069
Speaker:
And then just recently, I
believe this year when I was

679
00:25:52.069 –> 00:25:56.589
Speaker:
corresponding with the current
detective on the cold case unit

680
00:25:56.589 –> 00:26:00.450
Speaker:
that has her file, she said that
she’s looked in the case file

681
00:26:00.450 –> 00:26:05.470
Speaker:
twice, and she saw nothing of
the location of the duck pond.

682
00:26:05.470 –> 00:26:09.670
Speaker:
And it’s unclear if she if she’s
said it’s a lady detective.

683
00:26:09.670 –> 00:26:11.190
Speaker:
It’s been unclear.

684
00:26:11.190 –> 00:26:14.990
Speaker:
She hasn’t really made it very
clear is if there’s mention of

685
00:26:14.990 –> 00:26:15.670
Speaker:
the duck pond.

686
00:26:15.670 –> 00:26:18.490
Speaker:
But there’s no mention of the
location or if there’s no

687
00:26:18.490 –> 00:26:21.269
Speaker:
mention of the duck pond at all.

688
00:26:21.269 –> 00:26:22.190
Speaker:
And you’ve been trying to get

689
00:26:22.190 –> 00:26:24.150
Speaker:
Ahold of the case file again,

690
00:26:24.150 –> 00:26:25.109
Speaker:
unsuccessfully.

691
00:26:25.109 –> 00:26:27.950
Speaker:
But, I mean, you did get to view
it back in ninety four, but then

692
00:26:27.950 –> 00:26:30.869
Speaker:
you want to say, hey, what’s
what developments have happened

693
00:26:30.869 –> 00:26:33.769
Speaker:
since ninety four that you may
not know about or what maybe

694
00:26:33.769 –> 00:26:36.670
Speaker:
what, what they did not
investigate kind of confirming

695
00:26:36.670 –> 00:26:39.150
Speaker:
that they did or didn’t look
into the duck pond theory and

696
00:26:39.150 –> 00:26:39.789
Speaker:
things like that.

697
00:26:39.789 –> 00:26:41.029
Speaker:
That would be nice to know.

698
00:26:41.029 –> 00:26:42.230
Speaker:
I’m going to push again.

699
00:26:42.230 –> 00:26:43.990
Speaker:
The more that thinking on it

700
00:26:43.990 –> 00:26:45.809
Speaker:
again, like I’m going to push

701
00:26:45.809 –> 00:26:46.150
Speaker:
again.

702
00:26:46.150 –> 00:26:46.390
Speaker:
Okay.

703
00:26:46.390 –> 00:26:48.109
Speaker:
I’ve been told by two different

704
00:26:48.109 –> 00:26:50.190
Speaker:
detectives that they knew where

705
00:26:50.190 –> 00:26:51.069
Speaker:
it was.

706
00:26:51.069 –> 00:26:55.230
Speaker:
In her defense, maybe it was
overlooked and it is in there

707
00:26:55.230 –> 00:26:56.789
Speaker:
and she just overlooked it.

708
00:26:56.789 –> 00:27:00.390
Speaker:
But I feel like I should be told
where it was.

709
00:27:00.390 –> 00:27:04.549
Speaker:
Someone had contacted me like a
year and a half ago or

710
00:27:04.549 –> 00:27:08.109
Speaker:
something, and said that she was
an intuitive, and she said that

711
00:27:08.109 –> 00:27:11.430
Speaker:
my mother had come to her and
that she was in the bluegrass

712
00:27:11.430 –> 00:27:12.630
Speaker:
area like that.

713
00:27:12.630 –> 00:27:13.509
Speaker:
She was there.

714
00:27:13.509 –> 00:27:17.750
Speaker:
So she even went to the police
and told them and when they

715
00:27:17.750 –> 00:27:20.630
Speaker:
wouldn’t listen to her, then she
came to me.

716
00:27:20.630 –> 00:27:22.950
Speaker:
So I contacted them.

717
00:27:22.950 –> 00:27:26.029
Speaker:
That’s how the Chaos Divers got
involved, because I needed

718
00:27:26.029 –> 00:27:27.789
Speaker:
someone to go and look.

719
00:27:27.789 –> 00:27:31.990
Speaker:
It was the first time that I had
a location, right?

720
00:27:31.990 –> 00:27:34.349
Speaker:
Or, um, nothing was found.

721
00:27:34.349 –> 00:27:35.519
Speaker:
They looked there.

722
00:27:35.519 –> 00:27:41.380
Speaker:
There was actually in the
bluegrass area, a buck pond, B

723
00:27:41.380 –> 00:27:47.799
Speaker:
as in boy Buck pond, and one of
my aunts, my mother’s youngest

724
00:27:47.799 –> 00:27:51.960
Speaker:
sister, texted me that
information a while.

725
00:27:51.960 –> 00:27:53.599
Speaker:
You know, that all was going on.

726
00:27:53.599 –> 00:27:55.039
Speaker:
I was like, maybe.

727
00:27:55.039 –> 00:27:56.940
Speaker:
Maybe it was actually the buck

728
00:27:56.940 –> 00:27:59.299
Speaker:
pond, but she misheard it as the

729
00:27:59.299 –> 00:28:00.480
Speaker:
duck pond.

730
00:28:00.480 –> 00:28:03.279
Speaker:
So chaos divers did look there.

731
00:28:03.279 –> 00:28:06.920
Speaker:
Um, they actually looked there
multiple times at the Buck pond

732
00:28:06.920 –> 00:28:09.079
Speaker:
and they found nothing as well.

733
00:28:09.079 –> 00:28:11.160
Speaker:
Okay, so that didn’t bring up

734
00:28:11.160 –> 00:28:13.319
Speaker:
anything, but it does make sense

735
00:28:13.319 –> 00:28:15.480
Speaker:
that the car, like there’s been

736
00:28:15.480 –> 00:28:17.640
Speaker:
so many people that have been

737
00:28:17.640 –> 00:28:19.720
Speaker:
found because their car has just

738
00:28:19.720 –> 00:28:21.599
Speaker:
been sitting in a body of water

739
00:28:21.599 –> 00:28:23.079
Speaker:
for decades.

740
00:28:23.079 –> 00:28:25.000
Speaker:
So it makes sense.

741
00:28:25.000 –> 00:28:26.940
Speaker:
And the Duck Pond Diaries, I

742
00:28:26.940 –> 00:28:30.039
Speaker:
just really just it’s me venting

743
00:28:30.039 –> 00:28:32.359
Speaker:
and talking about what I want to

744
00:28:32.359 –> 00:28:33.960
Speaker:
talk about when I want to talk

745
00:28:33.960 –> 00:28:34.890
Speaker:
about it.

746
00:28:34.890 –> 00:28:35.130
Speaker:
How?

747
00:28:35.130 –> 00:28:36.410
Speaker:
I want to talk about it.

748
00:28:36.410 –> 00:28:37.609
Speaker:
No, it’s good to have that that

749
00:28:37.609 –> 00:28:38.950
Speaker:
outlet so that you can kind of

750
00:28:38.950 –> 00:28:40.009
Speaker:
get all get all this off your

751
00:28:40.009 –> 00:28:40.490
Speaker:
chest.

752
00:28:40.490 –> 00:28:43.930
Speaker:
And absolutely, because it’s got
to be beyond frustrating to try

753
00:28:43.930 –> 00:28:46.210
Speaker:
to get answers and to be.

754
00:28:46.210 –> 00:28:49.829
Speaker:
Honestly, I don’t understand why
there’d be a hesitance to

755
00:28:49.829 –> 00:28:50.849
Speaker:
provide you with whatever.

756
00:28:50.849 –> 00:28:52.170
Speaker:
I mean, it’s been fifty years.

757
00:28:52.170 –> 00:28:53.450
Speaker:
What harm could come from

758
00:28:53.450 –> 00:28:54.529
Speaker:
releasing information at this

759
00:28:54.529 –> 00:28:55.450
Speaker:
point?

760
00:28:55.450 –> 00:28:57.309
Speaker:
So the first denial that I got

761
00:28:57.309 –> 00:29:00.769
Speaker:
was a paralegal email that it’s

762
00:29:00.769 –> 00:29:02.410
Speaker:
an open investigation, blah,

763
00:29:02.410 –> 00:29:02.970
Speaker:
blah, blah.

764
00:29:02.970 –> 00:29:03.329
Speaker:
Thanks.

765
00:29:03.329 –> 00:29:04.329
Speaker:
Have a great day.

766
00:29:04.329 –> 00:29:07.009
Speaker:
Like, okay, I sent another one.

767
00:29:07.009 –> 00:29:11.690
Speaker:
I sent it directly to the email
of the person that was that’s

768
00:29:11.690 –> 00:29:14.450
Speaker:
over the legal department, which
you can pretty much find

769
00:29:14.450 –> 00:29:16.809
Speaker:
anything online like that.

770
00:29:16.809 –> 00:29:18.849
Speaker:
So I emailed directly, they

771
00:29:18.849 –> 00:29:21.609
Speaker:
emailed back and basically said,

772
00:29:21.609 –> 00:29:23.589
Speaker:
you know, I can’t help it that

773
00:29:23.589 –> 00:29:24.769
Speaker:
you were allowed to look at the

774
00:29:24.769 –> 00:29:25.930
Speaker:
case file in nineteen ninety

775
00:29:25.930 –> 00:29:26.049
Speaker:
four.

776
00:29:26.049 –> 00:29:27.509
Speaker:
You shouldn’t have been able to,

777
00:29:27.509 –> 00:29:28.609
Speaker:
you shouldn’t have been allowed

778
00:29:28.609 –> 00:29:28.730
Speaker:
to.

779
00:29:28.730 –> 00:29:32.170
Speaker:
But I can’t help that you’re not
going to get a copy of the case

780
00:29:32.170 –> 00:29:37.529
Speaker:
file because it is an open case
and it could still be they could

781
00:29:37.529 –> 00:29:38.890
Speaker:
still charge someone.

782
00:29:38.890 –> 00:29:39.609
Speaker:
It could.

783
00:29:39.609 –> 00:29:44.109
Speaker:
That’s what their focus is on,
is if they should be, they want

784
00:29:44.109 –> 00:29:48.289
Speaker:
to be able to charge somebody
for like a crime.

785
00:29:48.289 –> 00:29:50.609
Speaker:
But you haven’t even proven
there’s been a crime yet.

786
00:29:50.609 –> 00:29:52.369
Speaker:
So and it’s possible, right,

787
00:29:52.369 –> 00:29:54.369
Speaker:
that she that’s another theory

788
00:29:54.369 –> 00:29:55.569
Speaker:
I’ve kind of come upon is that

789
00:29:55.569 –> 00:29:57.069
Speaker:
she, she just said, you know,

790
00:29:57.069 –> 00:29:58.730
Speaker:
I’m just she could have just

791
00:29:58.730 –> 00:29:59.369
Speaker:
driven into.

792
00:29:59.369 –> 00:30:01.289
Speaker:
Or maybe she went for a drive

793
00:30:01.289 –> 00:30:03.410
Speaker:
and ended up in a body of water

794
00:30:03.410 –> 00:30:04.569
Speaker:
and it was just an accident

795
00:30:04.569 –> 00:30:05.369
Speaker:
because that happens all the

796
00:30:05.369 –> 00:30:06.569
Speaker:
time to where people just have

797
00:30:06.569 –> 00:30:07.769
Speaker:
an accident.

798
00:30:07.769 –> 00:30:08.890
Speaker:
And she just happened to have

799
00:30:08.890 –> 00:30:10.130
Speaker:
talked to somebody earlier in

800
00:30:10.130 –> 00:30:11.009
Speaker:
the restaurant.

801
00:30:11.009 –> 00:30:12.210
Speaker:
And, you know, people are making

802
00:30:12.210 –> 00:30:13.569
Speaker:
connections that maybe aren’t

803
00:30:13.569 –> 00:30:14.569
Speaker:
there.

804
00:30:14.569 –> 00:30:18.450
Speaker:
But so yeah, it’s not
necessarily a crime that they’re

805
00:30:18.450 –> 00:30:21.289
Speaker:
needing to protect, you know,
from charging someone later on.

806
00:30:21.289 –> 00:30:23.930
Speaker:
But I don’t care about that
right now.

807
00:30:23.930 –> 00:30:26.930
Speaker:
Like I first you have to find
her.

808
00:30:26.930 –> 00:30:28.210
Speaker:
That’s the first thing that has

809
00:30:28.210 –> 00:30:31.250
Speaker:
to be done if you want to charge

810
00:30:31.250 –> 00:30:32.460
Speaker:
somebody, whatever.

811
00:30:32.460 –> 00:30:33.140
Speaker:
But.

812
00:30:33.140 –> 00:30:34.380
Speaker:
Well, and also with the duck

813
00:30:34.380 –> 00:30:35.500
Speaker:
pond there, I mean, have you

814
00:30:35.500 –> 00:30:37.740
Speaker:
looked at maps of that area back

815
00:30:37.740 –> 00:30:40.160
Speaker:
in that time when to, to see if

816
00:30:40.160 –> 00:30:42.059
Speaker:
like the buck pond even existed

817
00:30:42.059 –> 00:30:45.019
Speaker:
or if the I, I haven’t, but

818
00:30:45.019 –> 00:30:47.059
Speaker:
chaos divers has someone that

819
00:30:47.059 –> 00:30:47.779
Speaker:
does that.

820
00:30:47.779 –> 00:30:48.339
Speaker:
Okay.

821
00:30:48.339 –> 00:30:50.099
Speaker:
Her name is Shelly and she’s
awesome.

822
00:30:50.099 –> 00:30:52.299
Speaker:
I’ve spoken to her via text, but

823
00:30:52.299 –> 00:30:54.740
Speaker:
she volunteers her time and she

824
00:30:54.740 –> 00:30:55.779
Speaker:
does that.

825
00:30:55.779 –> 00:31:00.059
Speaker:
And they have they have, I don’t
know how many bodies of water

826
00:31:00.059 –> 00:31:04.740
Speaker:
that they have looked in already
and still have marked to look or

827
00:31:04.740 –> 00:31:06.019
Speaker:
look at again.

828
00:31:06.019 –> 00:31:09.819
Speaker:
And she knows like, yes, this
was here then.

829
00:31:09.819 –> 00:31:10.619
Speaker:
No, it was not.

830
00:31:10.619 –> 00:31:13.460
Speaker:
And there’s some bodies of water
they have marked that they’re

831
00:31:13.460 –> 00:31:17.400
Speaker:
unsure if they if it was there
or not, but they’re still going

832
00:31:17.400 –> 00:31:20.380
Speaker:
to look okay because like
there’s some places that are

833
00:31:20.380 –> 00:31:24.539
Speaker:
technically on private property
that, you know, it’s un it’s

834
00:31:24.539 –> 00:31:29.460
Speaker:
unclear if it was there or not,
but chaos divers and Shelly and

835
00:31:29.460 –> 00:31:31.619
Speaker:
there’s other people that I
don’t know that help.

836
00:31:31.619 –> 00:31:32.500
Speaker:
They.

837
00:31:32.500 –> 00:31:33.180
Speaker:
They do that.

838
00:31:33.180 –> 00:31:34.339
Speaker:
They have done that.

839
00:31:34.339 –> 00:31:36.700
Speaker:
There’s a really nice article.

840
00:31:36.700 –> 00:31:38.779
Speaker:
If you Google Crossroads,

841
00:31:38.779 –> 00:31:40.380
Speaker:
Debra Wilhite, it should come

842
00:31:40.380 –> 00:31:40.539
Speaker:
up.

843
00:31:40.539 –> 00:31:43.299
Speaker:
I think it’s Crossroads Media
LLC.

844
00:31:43.299 –> 00:31:45.839
Speaker:
She did a really nice, thorough,

845
00:31:45.839 –> 00:31:48.460
Speaker:
thorough article about my

846
00:31:48.460 –> 00:31:49.539
Speaker:
mother’s disappearance,

847
00:31:49.539 –> 00:31:50.940
Speaker:
including maps.

848
00:31:50.940 –> 00:31:52.099
Speaker:
I’ll link that in the show
notes.

849
00:31:52.099 –> 00:31:54.539
Speaker:
If anyone wants to check that
out, I’ll link that.

850
00:31:54.539 –> 00:31:55.619
Speaker:
It’s very thorough.

851
00:31:55.619 –> 00:31:58.160
Speaker:
And she has like maps of like,

852
00:31:58.160 –> 00:31:59.579
Speaker:
this is where Lucille’s house

853
00:31:59.579 –> 00:31:59.900
Speaker:
was.

854
00:31:59.900 –> 00:32:01.380
Speaker:
This is where the windmill was.

855
00:32:01.380 –> 00:32:04.220
Speaker:
This is where my father’s work
was like all of that.

856
00:32:04.220 –> 00:32:05.299
Speaker:
It’s really thorough.

857
00:32:05.299 –> 00:32:07.940
Speaker:
So that is, I’ve looked at that.

858
00:32:07.940 –> 00:32:09.700
Speaker:
It’s, I’ve saved those because

859
00:32:09.700 –> 00:32:11.539
Speaker:
that’s something that I’ve, I’ve

860
00:32:11.539 –> 00:32:12.259
Speaker:
not done.

861
00:32:12.259 –> 00:32:16.940
Speaker:
It’s kind of tricky for me
because I will become obsessed.

862
00:32:16.940 –> 00:32:20.900
Speaker:
My girlfriend says that I’ll
start spinning is what she says.

863
00:32:20.900 –> 00:32:23.839
Speaker:
You’re spinning and, and so I

864
00:32:23.839 –> 00:32:25.460
Speaker:
have to kind of just let it

865
00:32:25.460 –> 00:32:27.019
Speaker:
like, put it down for a little

866
00:32:27.019 –> 00:32:27.859
Speaker:
bit sometimes.

867
00:32:27.859 –> 00:32:30.869
Speaker:
Like I haven’t done any of the
Duck Pond diaries.

868
00:32:30.869 –> 00:32:32.769
Speaker:
There’s I think I did ten

869
00:32:32.769 –> 00:32:34.430
Speaker:
videos, but I haven’t done one

870
00:32:34.430 –> 00:32:35.829
Speaker:
since October because I have

871
00:32:35.829 –> 00:32:38.609
Speaker:
just kind of put it down, but I,

872
00:32:38.609 –> 00:32:39.829
Speaker:
I’m kind of doing different

873
00:32:39.829 –> 00:32:40.269
Speaker:
things.

874
00:32:40.269 –> 00:32:46.069
Speaker:
I, I have an official website
now called searching for Debra T

875
00:32:46.069 –> 00:32:47.950
Speaker:
e b r a dot com.

876
00:32:47.950 –> 00:32:52.789
Speaker:
Previously I’ve had like, like
the first page that I made for

877
00:32:52.789 –> 00:32:54.829
Speaker:
my mother was on Myspace.

878
00:32:54.829 –> 00:32:57.230
Speaker:
So that was, yeah, a very long
time ago.

879
00:32:57.230 –> 00:32:58.029
Speaker:
Absolutely.

880
00:32:58.029 –> 00:33:01.509
Speaker:
And so she has a Facebook page
now and a TikTok.

881
00:33:01.509 –> 00:33:05.630
Speaker:
And the YouTube is also I’ve
changed.

882
00:33:05.630 –> 00:33:07.750
Speaker:
They’re all at searching for
Debra.

883
00:33:07.750 –> 00:33:11.950
Speaker:
So this is the first time that
I’ve, I, I wanted something more

884
00:33:11.950 –> 00:33:16.390
Speaker:
permanent that I can put all of
her information in one place.

885
00:33:16.390 –> 00:33:17.549
Speaker:
It’s still in development.

886
00:33:17.549 –> 00:33:18.829
Speaker:
I’m doing it myself.

887
00:33:18.829 –> 00:33:20.710
Speaker:
And, you know, I work full time
and whatever.

888
00:33:20.710 –> 00:33:22.390
Speaker:
So it it takes a while.

889
00:33:22.390 –> 00:33:25.789
Speaker:
So there’s some information on
there, but it’s my goal that

890
00:33:25.789 –> 00:33:29.710
Speaker:
everything about her and her
case will be on this website,

891
00:33:29.710 –> 00:33:31.190
Speaker:
including any updates.

892
00:33:31.190 –> 00:33:33.109
Speaker:
The last update, which I touched

893
00:33:33.109 –> 00:33:35.289
Speaker:
upon, I didn’t really go into

894
00:33:35.289 –> 00:33:37.529
Speaker:
when I had been posting about

895
00:33:37.529 –> 00:33:38.509
Speaker:
the car.

896
00:33:38.509 –> 00:33:44.549
Speaker:
People can look for the car, you
know, if you see old cars in in

897
00:33:44.549 –> 00:33:48.750
Speaker:
a barn or behind a shed or on,
you know, overgrown property or

898
00:33:48.750 –> 00:33:51.670
Speaker:
in the woods somewhere, you
know, take a look at it and see

899
00:33:51.670 –> 00:33:52.789
Speaker:
if it’s this kind of car.

900
00:33:52.789 –> 00:33:54.390
Speaker:
And I had somebody contact me

901
00:33:54.390 –> 00:33:57.069
Speaker:
and said, hey, I saw this car

902
00:33:57.069 –> 00:33:58.630
Speaker:
when I was driving to my mom’s

903
00:33:58.630 –> 00:34:00.509
Speaker:
house in Mount Vernon, and it

904
00:34:00.509 –> 00:34:02.230
Speaker:
looks like the car that you’re

905
00:34:02.230 –> 00:34:03.029
Speaker:
looking for.

906
00:34:03.029 –> 00:34:06.990
Speaker:
And she sent me a picture and I
was like, it is, it’s, it’s that

907
00:34:06.990 –> 00:34:07.950
Speaker:
kind of car.

908
00:34:07.950 –> 00:34:09.190
Speaker:
And it was green.

909
00:34:09.190 –> 00:34:13.829
Speaker:
So it looked like it was painted
black over green.

910
00:34:13.829 –> 00:34:15.909
Speaker:
Oh, that’s what the picture
looked like.

911
00:34:15.909 –> 00:34:17.110
Speaker:
Even stranger.

912
00:34:17.110 –> 00:34:19.630
Speaker:
And that blew my mind because
I’m so stupid.

913
00:34:19.630 –> 00:34:21.909
Speaker:
I was like, I never even thought
about that.

914
00:34:21.909 –> 00:34:23.349
Speaker:
Somebody could have just kept it

915
00:34:23.349 –> 00:34:25.449
Speaker:
and painted it and whatever,

916
00:34:25.449 –> 00:34:25.989
Speaker:
right?

917
00:34:25.989 –> 00:34:27.849
Speaker:
I don’t really concentrate on

918
00:34:27.849 –> 00:34:29.400
Speaker:
the color of it anymore for that

919
00:34:29.400 –> 00:34:29.800
Speaker:
reason.

920
00:34:29.800 –> 00:34:33.480
Speaker:
Anyway, I gave this information
to.

921
00:34:33.480 –> 00:34:38.480
Speaker:
The detective on her case, and
she said that she did go and

922
00:34:38.480 –> 00:34:39.880
Speaker:
spoke to the residents.

923
00:34:39.880 –> 00:34:42.400
Speaker:
And there was actually two Ford

924
00:34:42.400 –> 00:34:44.239
Speaker:
galaxies on the property, but

925
00:34:44.239 –> 00:34:45.639
Speaker:
the VIN numbers didn’t match

926
00:34:45.639 –> 00:34:46.880
Speaker:
because we do have my mom’s

927
00:34:46.880 –> 00:34:47.599
Speaker:
phone.

928
00:34:47.599 –> 00:34:50.679
Speaker:
But so that’s the most recent
update on her case.

929
00:34:50.679 –> 00:34:52.920
Speaker:
And I gave them that
information.

930
00:34:52.920 –> 00:34:55.500
Speaker:
Those are the kind of tips that
are that are helpful, you know,

931
00:34:55.500 –> 00:34:56.599
Speaker:
by just getting it out there.

932
00:34:56.599 –> 00:34:57.760
Speaker:
And then you hear somebody, oh,

933
00:34:57.760 –> 00:34:59.039
Speaker:
there’s a Ford Galaxy behind a

934
00:34:59.039 –> 00:34:59.360
Speaker:
barn.

935
00:34:59.360 –> 00:35:02.000
Speaker:
And that’s yeah, sometimes
that’s all it takes to, to blow

936
00:35:02.000 –> 00:35:03.440
Speaker:
open a case.

937
00:35:03.440 –> 00:35:03.960
Speaker:
Yes.

938
00:35:03.960 –> 00:35:04.159
Speaker:
Yeah.

939
00:35:04.159 –> 00:35:07.000
Speaker:
Your website’s actually very, a
very nice website searching for

940
00:35:07.000 –> 00:35:08.000
Speaker:
Debra dot com.

941
00:35:08.000 –> 00:35:11.019
Speaker:
You’ve got a gallery like of
your family members, just

942
00:35:11.019 –> 00:35:14.320
Speaker:
pictures of your mom and your
dad and your sister and your,

943
00:35:14.320 –> 00:35:17.320
Speaker:
your grandma or your mom as you
call her updates.

944
00:35:17.320 –> 00:35:19.000
Speaker:
And then your updates, you have

945
00:35:19.000 –> 00:35:22.320
Speaker:
a mention of, um, your Debbie is

946
00:35:22.320 –> 00:35:23.719
Speaker:
also missing.

947
00:35:23.719 –> 00:35:27.159
Speaker:
She’s on the California Missing
persons website because one

948
00:35:27.159 –> 00:35:30.250
Speaker:
theory is that she may have
taken off to California.

949
00:35:30.250 –> 00:35:31.250
Speaker:
Maybe with this.

950
00:35:31.250 –> 00:35:33.210
Speaker:
This person she had sent a love
letter to.

951
00:35:33.210 –> 00:35:33.690
Speaker:
Maybe.

952
00:35:33.690 –> 00:35:34.889
Speaker:
Well, I didn’t ask.

953
00:35:34.889 –> 00:35:36.889
Speaker:
But did they look into that
person?

954
00:35:36.889 –> 00:35:37.530
Speaker:
They did.

955
00:35:37.530 –> 00:35:37.849
Speaker:
Yeah.

956
00:35:37.849 –> 00:35:38.610
Speaker:
They did.

957
00:35:38.610 –> 00:35:41.409
Speaker:
Um, he told them that they did

958
00:35:41.409 –> 00:35:43.190
Speaker:
see each other, but they had,

959
00:35:43.190 –> 00:35:45.730
Speaker:
they hadn’t been recently seeing

960
00:35:45.730 –> 00:35:46.690
Speaker:
each other.

961
00:35:46.690 –> 00:35:49.889
Speaker:
Um he, he was still there so he
didn’t run off.

962
00:35:49.889 –> 00:35:52.329
Speaker:
He was still in you know, stayed
local.

963
00:35:52.329 –> 00:35:53.409
Speaker:
And I take it he was not a

964
00:35:53.409 –> 00:35:55.530
Speaker:
suspect or he, he had an alibi

965
00:35:55.530 –> 00:35:56.250
Speaker:
or something.

966
00:35:56.250 –> 00:35:58.889
Speaker:
I’m assuming he was never a
suspect.

967
00:35:58.889 –> 00:35:59.929
Speaker:
Same as my father.

968
00:35:59.929 –> 00:36:01.050
Speaker:
He was never.

969
00:36:01.050 –> 00:36:02.210
Speaker:
They interviewed him.

970
00:36:02.210 –> 00:36:04.570
Speaker:
He he was never a suspect.

971
00:36:04.570 –> 00:36:05.489
Speaker:
Well, I was just looking at the

972
00:36:05.489 –> 00:36:07.369
Speaker:
missing persons website, uh, for

973
00:36:07.369 –> 00:36:07.929
Speaker:
California.

974
00:36:07.929 –> 00:36:12.250
Speaker:
And they have that the car is
red.

975
00:36:12.250 –> 00:36:18.969
Speaker:
So, um, that’s also something
that’s new because so that came

976
00:36:18.969 –> 00:36:23.449
Speaker:
from there was a young, she was
actually underage, um, when the

977
00:36:23.449 –> 00:36:25.849
Speaker:
police interviewed her and I
don’t know if she went to them

978
00:36:25.849 –> 00:36:30.289
Speaker:
or they went to her, but there
was this underage family friend,

979
00:36:30.289 –> 00:36:34.449
Speaker:
um, that told the Indiana State
Police that she was partying.

980
00:36:34.449 –> 00:36:36.170
Speaker:
Her and her some friend were

981
00:36:36.170 –> 00:36:37.449
Speaker:
partying with these two older

982
00:36:37.449 –> 00:36:40.610
Speaker:
guys, and one of them told them

983
00:36:40.610 –> 00:36:42.269
Speaker:
that she had ran off to

984
00:36:42.269 –> 00:36:43.570
Speaker:
California.

985
00:36:43.570 –> 00:36:45.050
Speaker:
That’s where that came from.

986
00:36:45.050 –> 00:36:51.469
Speaker:
So, so until just a couple of
weeks ago, whenever I put that,

987
00:36:51.469 –> 00:36:56.889
Speaker:
um, whatever date the update is
on the website, that is the date

988
00:36:56.889 –> 00:37:00.849
Speaker:
that they updated previously,
they had a picture of her that

989
00:37:00.849 –> 00:37:02.730
Speaker:
looked like a faxed photo.

990
00:37:02.730 –> 00:37:06.250
Speaker:
It was a horrible photo and they
didn’t have any information

991
00:37:06.250 –> 00:37:07.730
Speaker:
about the car.

992
00:37:07.730 –> 00:37:12.409
Speaker:
I contacted the California and
told them who I was and said,

993
00:37:12.409 –> 00:37:17.050
Speaker:
can I give you updated
information in a better photo?

994
00:37:17.050 –> 00:37:19.690
Speaker:
I don’t know why they put the
car as red.

995
00:37:19.690 –> 00:37:20.969
Speaker:
I have no idea.

996
00:37:20.969 –> 00:37:22.550
Speaker:
They have updated her photo to

997
00:37:22.550 –> 00:37:24.690
Speaker:
be the more the less fax like

998
00:37:24.690 –> 00:37:25.250
Speaker:
picture.

999
00:37:25.250 –> 00:37:27.579
Speaker:
So it is crazy that I gave them

1000
00:37:27.579 –> 00:37:29.219
Speaker:
that, you know, these missing

1001
00:37:29.219 –> 00:37:30.900
Speaker:
sites doing all the research I

1002
00:37:30.900 –> 00:37:31.099
Speaker:
do.

1003
00:37:31.099 –> 00:37:34.440
Speaker:
It’s like sometimes they use the
crappiest photos and it’s like,

1004
00:37:34.440 –> 00:37:37.619
Speaker:
I can Google and find much
better photos of this person,

1005
00:37:37.619 –> 00:37:40.340
Speaker:
but maybe that was what they
were provided with back in the

1006
00:37:40.340 –> 00:37:41.420
Speaker:
day or something.

1007
00:37:41.420 –> 00:37:41.940
Speaker:
Yes.

1008
00:37:41.940 –> 00:37:47.420
Speaker:
And it, it, um, it had not been
updated this whole time.

1009
00:37:47.420 –> 00:37:50.980
Speaker:
And I don’t know why it didn’t
occur to me to contact them

1010
00:37:50.980 –> 00:37:55.300
Speaker:
before, but I’m doing that more
just taking things upon myself.

1011
00:37:55.300 –> 00:37:58.980
Speaker:
So they updated her photo
finally, and they did update

1012
00:37:58.980 –> 00:38:01.940
Speaker:
that additional information and
added additional information.

1013
00:38:01.940 –> 00:38:04.579
Speaker:
I don’t know where they got red
from that.

1014
00:38:04.579 –> 00:38:07.699
Speaker:
I don’t know where they got that
from, but at least the

1015
00:38:07.699 –> 00:38:09.059
Speaker:
information is there.

1016
00:38:09.059 –> 00:38:11.500
Speaker:
So it’s updated with with that
at least.

1017
00:38:11.500 –> 00:38:12.780
Speaker:
What do you think that that’s I

1018
00:38:12.780 –> 00:38:14.380
Speaker:
mean, how much credibility do

1019
00:38:14.380 –> 00:38:15.460
Speaker:
you put towards that theory that

1020
00:38:15.460 –> 00:38:16.460
Speaker:
she might have just taken off to

1021
00:38:16.460 –> 00:38:18.059
Speaker:
California?

1022
00:38:18.059 –> 00:38:21.139
Speaker:
I mean, really anything is
possible.

1023
00:38:22.659 –> 00:38:27.880
Speaker:
I don’t I don’t think I don’t
believe, but I’m also open to

1024
00:38:27.880 –> 00:38:32.860
Speaker:
pretty much anything because,
you know, she was nineteen.

1025
00:38:32.860 –> 00:38:34.780
Speaker:
Yeah, it was the seventies.

1026
00:38:34.780 –> 00:38:36.699
Speaker:
It was the seventies.

1027
00:38:36.699 –> 00:38:38.539
Speaker:
But she was like, she had just
started.

1028
00:38:38.539 –> 00:38:39.460
Speaker:
She didn’t have money.

1029
00:38:39.460 –> 00:38:42.260
Speaker:
That’s the only thing is like
she didn’t have money.

1030
00:38:42.260 –> 00:38:46.340
Speaker:
And also, if she would have just
taken off, like her Social

1031
00:38:46.340 –> 00:38:49.340
Speaker:
security number has not been
used, the car just disappeared.

1032
00:38:49.340 –> 00:38:51.780
Speaker:
It was never reregistered or
renewed.

1033
00:38:51.780 –> 00:38:54.619
Speaker:
And she didn’t have money to

1034
00:38:54.619 –> 00:38:57.539
Speaker:
like, can you get a new, you

1035
00:38:57.539 –> 00:38:59.260
Speaker:
know, make a new life and change

1036
00:38:59.260 –> 00:38:59.940
Speaker:
your identity?

1037
00:38:59.940 –> 00:39:03.340
Speaker:
Yeah, but you have to have money
typically to do that.

1038
00:39:03.340 –> 00:39:05.219
Speaker:
It’s not cheap to just disappear

1039
00:39:05.219 –> 00:39:06.780
Speaker:
and to start, start anew

1040
00:39:06.780 –> 00:39:07.820
Speaker:
somewhere else.

1041
00:39:07.820 –> 00:39:08.900
Speaker:
I think the fact that the car

1042
00:39:08.900 –> 00:39:10.340
Speaker:
has not been found is the most

1043
00:39:10.340 –> 00:39:10.860
Speaker:
telling thing.

1044
00:39:10.860 –> 00:39:12.820
Speaker:
And I think the duck pond theory

1045
00:39:12.820 –> 00:39:15.099
Speaker:
seems to be a pretty valid

1046
00:39:15.099 –> 00:39:15.380
Speaker:
theory.

1047
00:39:15.380 –> 00:39:20.500
Speaker:
I think it’s I think one issue
could be that like they like the

1048
00:39:20.500 –> 00:39:23.980
Speaker:
state police had said the the
pond that that may have happened

1049
00:39:23.980 –> 00:39:26.429
Speaker:
at may have been filled.

1050
00:39:26.429 –> 00:39:28.750
Speaker:
So I wonder, where is it?

1051
00:39:28.750 –> 00:39:29.789
Speaker:
But where is it?

1052
00:39:29.789 –> 00:39:31.269
Speaker:
Is there a way?

1053
00:39:31.269 –> 00:39:32.469
Speaker:
No, no. There are ways.

1054
00:39:32.469 –> 00:39:34.150
Speaker:
Like with chaos divers, they use
sonar.

1055
00:39:34.150 –> 00:39:38.510
Speaker:
Is there a way to find a vehicle
buried thirty feet below the

1056
00:39:38.510 –> 00:39:41.989
Speaker:
ground, using some sort of radar
or technology that they might

1057
00:39:41.989 –> 00:39:43.110
Speaker:
not have had?

1058
00:39:43.110 –> 00:39:44.590
Speaker:
You know, I’ve actually looked

1059
00:39:44.590 –> 00:39:47.510
Speaker:
into this, and I have been told

1060
00:39:47.510 –> 00:39:49.389
Speaker:
by numerous groups that they

1061
00:39:49.389 –> 00:39:51.909
Speaker:
would need something that could

1062
00:39:51.909 –> 00:39:55.230
Speaker:
not only find the the car, but

1063
00:39:55.230 –> 00:39:56.949
Speaker:
then also be able to see if

1064
00:39:56.949 –> 00:39:58.110
Speaker:
there was a if there were

1065
00:39:58.110 –> 00:40:01.050
Speaker:
skeletal remains inside, because

1066
00:40:01.050 –> 00:40:03.190
Speaker:
there’s probably multiple cars

1067
00:40:03.190 –> 00:40:06.690
Speaker:
because that is very common for

1068
00:40:06.690 –> 00:40:09.230
Speaker:
like I, I think it was chaos

1069
00:40:09.230 –> 00:40:09.590
Speaker:
divers.

1070
00:40:09.590 –> 00:40:10.710
Speaker:
There was one place where they

1071
00:40:10.710 –> 00:40:13.269
Speaker:
found like ninety cars or

1072
00:40:13.269 –> 00:40:14.869
Speaker:
something in this one body of

1073
00:40:14.869 –> 00:40:15.269
Speaker:
water.

1074
00:40:15.269 –> 00:40:15.989
Speaker:
There was.

1075
00:40:15.989 –> 00:40:17.230
Speaker:
And I remember hearing something

1076
00:40:17.230 –> 00:40:19.989
Speaker:
about some car lot that did some

1077
00:40:19.989 –> 00:40:21.309
Speaker:
kind of insurance scam or

1078
00:40:21.309 –> 00:40:22.429
Speaker:
something, and they put all

1079
00:40:22.429 –> 00:40:24.289
Speaker:
these cars in a body of water to

1080
00:40:24.289 –> 00:40:24.989
Speaker:
get.

1081
00:40:24.989 –> 00:40:25.389
Speaker:
Yeah.

1082
00:40:25.389 –> 00:40:27.789
Speaker:
So there’s cars everywhere.

1083
00:40:27.789 –> 00:40:32.309
Speaker:
And the thing with the stripper
pits is like when they’re done

1084
00:40:32.309 –> 00:40:33.710
Speaker:
with a stripper pits.

1085
00:40:33.710 –> 00:40:34.630
Speaker:
Mhm.

1086
00:40:34.630 –> 00:40:39.150
Speaker:
A lot of times, like metal
scaffolding.

1087
00:40:39.150 –> 00:40:40.469
Speaker:
I don’t know what they use, but

1088
00:40:40.469 –> 00:40:43.010
Speaker:
like, they’ll put their excess

1089
00:40:43.010 –> 00:40:45.630
Speaker:
whatever machinery or whatever

1090
00:40:45.630 –> 00:40:48.150
Speaker:
into the pit and then fill that

1091
00:40:48.150 –> 00:40:48.349
Speaker:
in.

1092
00:40:48.349 –> 00:40:50.429
Speaker:
Like that’s just a way to clean
it up.

1093
00:40:50.429 –> 00:40:54.409
Speaker:
So. So it’s possible the like

1094
00:40:54.409 –> 00:40:56.610
Speaker:
the buck pond or the I don’t

1095
00:40:56.610 –> 00:40:58.309
Speaker:
know how deep it was when they

1096
00:40:58.309 –> 00:41:00.429
Speaker:
looked, but in my mind, it’s

1097
00:41:00.429 –> 00:41:02.309
Speaker:
possible that she is in the

1098
00:41:02.309 –> 00:41:03.230
Speaker:
bluegrass area.

1099
00:41:03.230 –> 00:41:05.949
Speaker:
My aunt said that she had
actually always wondered about

1100
00:41:05.949 –> 00:41:10.150
Speaker:
that area because that was all
stripper pits, the bluegrass.

1101
00:41:10.150 –> 00:41:13.030
Speaker:
It was all stripper pits back in
the day, and then they made it

1102
00:41:13.030 –> 00:41:14.309
Speaker:
into a nature preserve.

1103
00:41:14.309 –> 00:41:17.670
Speaker:
And I think it was a popular
place for people to, to go.

1104
00:41:17.670 –> 00:41:21.309
Speaker:
And it was a, I think, a place
that people who were up to no

1105
00:41:21.309 –> 00:41:24.800
Speaker:
good were, were going to hide
things from exactly what I

1106
00:41:24.800 –> 00:41:26.000
Speaker:
understand back in the day.

1107
00:41:26.000 –> 00:41:28.599
Speaker:
But yeah, now it’s kind of a
nature preserve kind of an area.

1108
00:41:28.599 –> 00:41:30.639
Speaker:
But back then it was was not.

1109
00:41:30.639 –> 00:41:35.440
Speaker:
So my, my current goal is to I’m

1110
00:41:35.440 –> 00:41:37.760
Speaker:
going to ask again, where is the

1111
00:41:37.760 –> 00:41:38.280
Speaker:
duck pond?

1112
00:41:38.280 –> 00:41:40.800
Speaker:
I’ve been told by more than one

1113
00:41:40.800 –> 00:41:42.480
Speaker:
detective at the Indiana State

1114
00:41:42.480 –> 00:41:43.719
Speaker:
Police that they knew where it

1115
00:41:43.719 –> 00:41:44.159
Speaker:
was.

1116
00:41:44.159 –> 00:41:46.760
Speaker:
I want to know where it is the
detectives going to get tired of

1117
00:41:46.760 –> 00:41:49.400
Speaker:
hearing from me, but I can’t.

1118
00:41:49.400 –> 00:41:51.519
Speaker:
She’s my only resource.

1119
00:41:51.519 –> 00:41:52.880
Speaker:
She’s my only access.

1120
00:41:52.880 –> 00:41:54.599
Speaker:
I did ask her.

1121
00:41:54.599 –> 00:41:56.719
Speaker:
I told her about the website.

1122
00:41:56.719 –> 00:41:58.420
Speaker:
And when we were talking about

1123
00:41:58.420 –> 00:42:00.320
Speaker:
the when she told me about the

1124
00:42:00.320 –> 00:42:02.079
Speaker:
car that she was able to go and

1125
00:42:02.079 –> 00:42:03.280
Speaker:
look at, I talked about the

1126
00:42:03.280 –> 00:42:06.159
Speaker:
website and my goal for it, and

1127
00:42:06.159 –> 00:42:08.099
Speaker:
I said, if you have any other

1128
00:42:08.099 –> 00:42:09.400
Speaker:
public information that you

1129
00:42:09.400 –> 00:42:13.440
Speaker:
would be able to give me, um,

1130
00:42:13.440 –> 00:42:14.800
Speaker:
that I could put on the website

1131
00:42:14.800 –> 00:42:16.719
Speaker:
and that I. She didn’t respond

1132
00:42:16.719 –> 00:42:16.960
Speaker:
to that.

1133
00:42:16.960 –> 00:42:18.039
Speaker:
And I haven’t heard anything
else.

1134
00:42:18.039 –> 00:42:20.440
Speaker:
That was a few weeks ago.

1135
00:42:20.440 –> 00:42:22.090
Speaker:
And I see you have a link on

1136
00:42:22.090 –> 00:42:23.789
Speaker:
your home page to submit an

1137
00:42:23.789 –> 00:42:24.690
Speaker:
anonymous tip.

1138
00:42:24.690 –> 00:42:26.130
Speaker:
So if someone wanted to reach

1139
00:42:26.130 –> 00:42:27.050
Speaker:
out with some information,

1140
00:42:27.050 –> 00:42:28.849
Speaker:
sometimes people may not want to

1141
00:42:28.849 –> 00:42:30.170
Speaker:
call the police for whatever

1142
00:42:30.170 –> 00:42:31.409
Speaker:
reason, but they might leave an

1143
00:42:31.409 –> 00:42:32.849
Speaker:
anonymous tip on a website

1144
00:42:32.849 –> 00:42:34.210
Speaker:
where, you know, that could be

1145
00:42:34.210 –> 00:42:35.130
Speaker:
helpful.

1146
00:42:35.130 –> 00:42:36.329
Speaker:
Thank you for bringing that up.

1147
00:42:36.329 –> 00:42:37.690
Speaker:
Yes, that is something else

1148
00:42:37.690 –> 00:42:39.349
Speaker:
that’s never been available

1149
00:42:39.349 –> 00:42:41.210
Speaker:
before and it is completely

1150
00:42:41.210 –> 00:42:41.769
Speaker:
anonymous.

1151
00:42:41.769 –> 00:42:43.530
Speaker:
I don’t get because I and I’ve

1152
00:42:43.530 –> 00:42:45.530
Speaker:
actually gotten a couple on the

1153
00:42:45.530 –> 00:42:47.050
Speaker:
website, but they were more just

1154
00:42:47.050 –> 00:42:50.130
Speaker:
comments unless you put your

1155
00:42:50.130 –> 00:42:51.889
Speaker:
information, I don’t get your

1156
00:42:51.889 –> 00:42:52.250
Speaker:
email.

1157
00:42:52.250 –> 00:42:53.289
Speaker:
I don’t see your name.

1158
00:42:53.289 –> 00:42:55.050
Speaker:
It’s just the information.

1159
00:42:55.050 –> 00:42:58.210
Speaker:
Um, and it’s, if it’s a anything

1160
00:42:58.210 –> 00:42:59.690
Speaker:
that I could give the police,

1161
00:42:59.690 –> 00:43:00.849
Speaker:
it’s something I can give to the

1162
00:43:00.849 –> 00:43:02.489
Speaker:
police and it is one hundred

1163
00:43:02.489 –> 00:43:03.650
Speaker:
percent anonymous.

1164
00:43:03.650 –> 00:43:04.690
Speaker:
Well, even though so much time

1165
00:43:04.690 –> 00:43:05.809
Speaker:
has passed, the hope is that

1166
00:43:05.809 –> 00:43:08.429
Speaker:
someone will hear your story and

1167
00:43:08.429 –> 00:43:10.090
Speaker:
all of these details and maybe

1168
00:43:10.090 –> 00:43:11.170
Speaker:
someone it’ll rack someone’s

1169
00:43:11.170 –> 00:43:12.010
Speaker:
brain, they’ll be like, wait a

1170
00:43:12.010 –> 00:43:12.489
Speaker:
minute.

1171
00:43:12.489 –> 00:43:15.690
Speaker:
Uh, so-and-so was in that area,
or so-and-so had a green galaxy

1172
00:43:15.690 –> 00:43:17.889
Speaker:
for some reason for two weeks
and they got rid of it.

1173
00:43:17.889 –> 00:43:19.969
Speaker:
Or, you know, something like
that would be triggered with

1174
00:43:19.969 –> 00:43:23.989
Speaker:
someone where it might kind of
open some new doors to to

1175
00:43:23.989 –> 00:43:25.570
Speaker:
solving what happened.

1176
00:43:25.570 –> 00:43:29.449
Speaker:
My mom, Lucille, had told me
that back in the day.

1177
00:43:29.449 –> 00:43:34.510
Speaker:
Someone told her that they saw
the car in somebody’s garage,

1178
00:43:34.510 –> 00:43:38.170
Speaker:
but like, there’s nothing came
of that either.

1179
00:43:38.170 –> 00:43:39.929
Speaker:
Just like the duck pond, so.

1180
00:43:39.929 –> 00:43:40.690
Speaker:
Right.

1181
00:43:40.690 –> 00:43:42.650
Speaker:
It’s just one of those theories
out there that’s.

1182
00:43:42.650 –> 00:43:43.570
Speaker:
Yeah.

1183
00:43:43.570 –> 00:43:44.730
Speaker:
One of the many.

1184
00:43:44.730 –> 00:43:48.650
Speaker:
Are there any other theories
that are floating around that,

1185
00:43:48.650 –> 00:43:52.409
Speaker:
you know, may or may not have
any credibility to them?

1186
00:43:52.409 –> 00:43:58.670
Speaker:
Um, there’s still some people
that say that it was my father,

1187
00:43:58.670 –> 00:44:04.530
Speaker:
but there’s no like literally
someone was sent me, um, an old

1188
00:44:04.530 –> 00:44:06.210
Speaker:
article or something.

1189
00:44:06.210 –> 00:44:08.369
Speaker:
And then they, this was on

1190
00:44:08.369 –> 00:44:09.809
Speaker:
Facebook and then they messaged

1191
00:44:09.809 –> 00:44:12.369
Speaker:
me saying, we still think that

1192
00:44:12.369 –> 00:44:13.650
Speaker:
it was her, that it was her

1193
00:44:13.650 –> 00:44:14.690
Speaker:
husband.

1194
00:44:14.690 –> 00:44:17.510
Speaker:
And because they accidentally
sent it to me instead of who

1195
00:44:17.510 –> 00:44:18.650
Speaker:
they were talking to.

1196
00:44:18.650 –> 00:44:20.099
Speaker:
Right.

1197
00:44:20.099 –> 00:44:21.059
Speaker:
Whoops.

1198
00:44:21.059 –> 00:44:22.539
Speaker:
Um, okay.

1199
00:44:22.539 –> 00:44:23.300
Speaker:
Yeah.

1200
00:44:23.300 –> 00:44:24.940
Speaker:
But so I know that people still

1201
00:44:24.940 –> 00:44:27.219
Speaker:
think that and he was accounted

1202
00:44:27.219 –> 00:44:27.780
Speaker:
for, right?

1203
00:44:27.780 –> 00:44:31.219
Speaker:
Like he had, he was at the
tavern.

1204
00:44:31.219 –> 00:44:31.780
Speaker:
Right.

1205
00:44:31.780 –> 00:44:33.380
Speaker:
And so that couldn’t have, that

1206
00:44:33.380 –> 00:44:35.340
Speaker:
doesn’t seem to be very credible

1207
00:44:35.340 –> 00:44:36.659
Speaker:
that he had anything to do with

1208
00:44:36.659 –> 00:44:37.300
Speaker:
it.

1209
00:44:37.300 –> 00:44:41.340
Speaker:
No. And my mom, Lucille, she she

1210
00:44:41.340 –> 00:44:43.139
Speaker:
didn’t believe that he had

1211
00:44:43.139 –> 00:44:44.420
Speaker:
anything to.

1212
00:44:44.420 –> 00:44:47.380
Speaker:
He believed that she left him.

1213
00:44:47.380 –> 00:44:50.420
Speaker:
I think that’s what she really
what he really thought.

1214
00:44:50.420 –> 00:44:55.500
Speaker:
And he passed away in September
of seventy six.

1215
00:44:55.500 –> 00:44:58.420
Speaker:
So two years later, you lost
your dad after.

1216
00:44:58.420 –> 00:44:58.980
Speaker:
Yeah.

1217
00:44:58.980 –> 00:45:00.059
Speaker:
This happened with your mom.

1218
00:45:00.059 –> 00:45:01.139
Speaker:
My gosh.

1219
00:45:01.139 –> 00:45:01.659
Speaker:
Yeah.

1220
00:45:01.659 –> 00:45:05.099
Speaker:
He he had moved in with me and
my sister to Lucille’s.

1221
00:45:05.099 –> 00:45:05.860
Speaker:
Mhm.

1222
00:45:05.860 –> 00:45:10.659
Speaker:
Um, and just to take care of us,
I was like, she watched us when

1223
00:45:10.659 –> 00:45:11.460
Speaker:
he was at work.

1224
00:45:11.460 –> 00:45:13.219
Speaker:
But she would always say that

1225
00:45:13.219 –> 00:45:15.079
Speaker:
once we got home, we were his,

1226
00:45:15.079 –> 00:45:17.260
Speaker:
like, he she didn’t just raise

1227
00:45:17.260 –> 00:45:17.659
Speaker:
us.

1228
00:45:17.659 –> 00:45:19.579
Speaker:
She helped take care of us.

1229
00:45:19.579 –> 00:45:22.519
Speaker:
But he was a very devoted father

1230
00:45:22.519 –> 00:45:26.340
Speaker:
and he felt like his wife had

1231
00:45:26.340 –> 00:45:27.260
Speaker:
left him.

1232
00:45:27.260 –> 00:45:29.179
Speaker:
So I don’t.

1233
00:45:29.179 –> 00:45:33.179
Speaker:
I don’t believe that he had
anything to do with it at all.

1234
00:45:33.179 –> 00:45:34.940
Speaker:
And everyone that I’ve spoke to

1235
00:45:34.940 –> 00:45:37.179
Speaker:
that knew him doesn’t believe

1236
00:45:37.179 –> 00:45:38.420
Speaker:
that either.

1237
00:45:38.420 –> 00:45:40.380
Speaker:
I know that they talked to the

1238
00:45:40.380 –> 00:45:42.059
Speaker:
the guy that she had written a

1239
00:45:42.059 –> 00:45:44.940
Speaker:
letter to, but there’s never

1240
00:45:44.940 –> 00:45:50.940
Speaker:
been like an actual lead or

1241
00:45:50.940 –> 00:45:52.820
Speaker:
actual evidence that they could

1242
00:45:52.820 –> 00:45:54.900
Speaker:
run with other than the death

1243
00:45:54.900 –> 00:45:56.820
Speaker:
pond that they didn’t look at in

1244
00:45:56.820 –> 00:45:57.739
Speaker:
the seventies.

1245
00:45:57.739 –> 00:46:01.880
Speaker:
To me, they’re, they could, um,
look into some things, maybe

1246
00:46:01.880 –> 00:46:04.579
Speaker:
with technology now that they
didn’t have back then.

1247
00:46:04.579 –> 00:46:07.460
Speaker:
They, I mean, I think they
should continue looking for this

1248
00:46:07.460 –> 00:46:11.659
Speaker:
person, this other cattle drive
truck driver and maybe or the,

1249
00:46:11.659 –> 00:46:15.139
Speaker:
the cattle truck driver to see
if he had given someone a ride.

1250
00:46:15.139 –> 00:46:17.099
Speaker:
I don’t know if it’s too late to

1251
00:46:17.099 –> 00:46:18.789
Speaker:
ask those sorts of questions,

1252
00:46:18.789 –> 00:46:21.110
Speaker:
but it’s I don’t think it’s ever

1253
00:46:21.110 –> 00:46:21.789
Speaker:
too late.

1254
00:46:21.789 –> 00:46:22.110
Speaker:
Right.

1255
00:46:22.110 –> 00:46:25.010
Speaker:
But I mean, maybe that guy has
because, I mean, it’s stunning

1256
00:46:25.010 –> 00:46:26.630
Speaker:
to me the things that people.

1257
00:46:26.630 –> 00:46:30.150
Speaker:
Someone reached out to me a few
months ago on another case and

1258
00:46:30.150 –> 00:46:32.150
Speaker:
they’re like, I, I thought the
police would ask me these

1259
00:46:32.150 –> 00:46:33.590
Speaker:
questions and they didn’t.

1260
00:46:33.590 –> 00:46:35.550
Speaker:
And so I’m working on that
situation.

1261
00:46:35.550 –> 00:46:39.050
Speaker:
But it’s crazy to think this
person might be out there who,

1262
00:46:39.050 –> 00:46:41.190
Speaker:
who has this information?

1263
00:46:41.190 –> 00:46:43.190
Speaker:
And they, the police just never
followed up.

1264
00:46:43.190 –> 00:46:44.909
Speaker:
And they just don’t.

1265
00:46:44.909 –> 00:46:46.150
Speaker:
They just think, oh, they have
what they need.

1266
00:46:46.150 –> 00:46:48.389
Speaker:
Or they would, they would ask me
because I think people just

1267
00:46:48.389 –> 00:46:51.429
Speaker:
assume that if it was that
important, they’d come to me.

1268
00:46:51.429 –> 00:46:53.590
Speaker:
Um, and that’s not what always
happens.

1269
00:46:53.590 –> 00:46:56.590
Speaker:
So yeah, maybe she did give him

1270
00:46:56.590 –> 00:46:58.869
Speaker:
a ride and dropped him off

1271
00:46:58.869 –> 00:47:01.349
Speaker:
somewhere before she was going

1272
00:47:01.349 –> 00:47:03.070
Speaker:
to go get my dad, but didn’t

1273
00:47:03.070 –> 00:47:03.869
Speaker:
make it.

1274
00:47:03.869 –> 00:47:04.989
Speaker:
Exactly.

1275
00:47:04.989 –> 00:47:06.710
Speaker:
There’s, there’s no way to know.

1276
00:47:06.710 –> 00:47:06.949
Speaker:
Yeah.

1277
00:47:06.949 –> 00:47:09.030
Speaker:
I mean, it would just open up
some new doors and some

1278
00:47:09.030 –> 00:47:11.590
Speaker:
information to be able to kind
of chase some things down.

1279
00:47:11.590 –> 00:47:16.309
Speaker:
So I would appreciate if people

1280
00:47:16.309 –> 00:47:18.030
Speaker:
would just go to the website

1281
00:47:18.030 –> 00:47:20.789
Speaker:
searching for Debra and just

1282
00:47:20.789 –> 00:47:22.809
Speaker:
take all the information in and,

1283
00:47:22.809 –> 00:47:24.789
Speaker:
and let us know if they know

1284
00:47:24.789 –> 00:47:27.230
Speaker:
anything or see anything or hear

1285
00:47:27.230 –> 00:47:27.989
Speaker:
anything.

1286
00:47:27.989 –> 00:47:31.110
Speaker:
Well, I think I thank you for
telling me about your mom’s

1287
00:47:31.110 –> 00:47:34.590
Speaker:
story and hopefully this is
helpful in some way.

1288
00:47:34.590 –> 00:47:35.550
Speaker:
Maybe somebody will listen to

1289
00:47:35.550 –> 00:47:37.349
Speaker:
this and come forward with a

1290
00:47:37.349 –> 00:47:37.550
Speaker:
tip.

1291
00:47:37.550 –> 00:47:39.070
Speaker:
That’ll be helpful.

1292
00:47:39.070 –> 00:47:39.309
Speaker:
Yeah.

1293
00:47:39.309 –> 00:47:42.110
Speaker:
Thank you for having me, I
appreciate it.

1294
00:47:42.110 –> 00:47:43.110
Speaker:
And if you think you may have

1295
00:47:43.110 –> 00:47:44.190
Speaker:
some information that could be

1296
00:47:44.190 –> 00:47:45.469
Speaker:
useful in solving Debra’s

1297
00:47:45.469 –> 00:47:47.150
Speaker:
case, reach out to the Indiana

1298
00:47:47.150 –> 00:47:49.230
Speaker:
State Police at eight one two

1299
00:47:49.230 –> 00:47:51.969
Speaker:
eight six seven two zero seven

1300
00:47:51.969 –> 00:47:53.389
Speaker:
nine.

1301
00:47:53.389 –> 00:47:54.869
Speaker:
Or you can submit an anonymous

1302
00:47:54.869 –> 00:47:56.670
Speaker:
tip at searching for Debra dot

1303
00:47:56.670 –> 00:47:58.269
Speaker:
com.

1304
00:47:58.269 –> 00:48:00.969
Speaker:
All of the links that were
mentioned in this episode are in

1305
00:48:00.969 –> 00:48:02.389
Speaker:
the show notes.

1306
00:48:02.389 –> 00:48:05.369
Speaker:
Or you could go to River city
mystery dot com slash twenty

1307
00:48:05.369 –> 00:48:07.190
Speaker:
three to find those.

1308
00:48:07.190 –> 00:48:09.510
Speaker:
Thank you so much for listening
to this episode.

1309
00:48:09.510 –> 00:48:11.670
Speaker:
Until next time, take care.