The Burrows Cave Mystery

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On April 2, 1982, Russell Burrows was making

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his way through a quiet valley
in southern Illinois.

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Nothing out of the ordinary,
nothing dramatic.

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Just another day poking around
the woods.

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And Burrows wasn’t some casual
hiker, either.

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He was a highly decorated Korean

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War veteran, a battle tested

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officer and an experienced caver

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who’d survived situations most

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couldn’t dream up in their worst

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nightmares.

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He was just about ready to head
home when his boot landed on

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what looked like a plain, flat
slab of rock.

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And then the ground just dropped
out from underneath him.

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In seconds, he was plunged into
a hidden pit.

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He instinctively knew that this
was no natural hole and felt

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like a trap.

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A man made void designed to take

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someone down and seal itself

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tight.

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Any other person might have been

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crushed, but Burrows reacted on

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pure combat honed instinct,

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twisting in just enough to keep

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the stone lid from locking

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completely shut.

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That split second move, he says,

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saved his life when he climbed

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back up, shaken and covered in

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dust, he noticed something

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strange.

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The underside was carved with
strange symbols and peering back

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into the hole.

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The pit itself held more carved
stone, including a massive

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ancient looking stone face
staring across the dark chamber

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right next to a sealed doorway.

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What Russell Burroughs claims he
stumbled onto that day wasn’t

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just a pit in the woods.

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It was, he believed, the

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entryway into something far

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bigger, something that could

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rewrite the entire history of

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North America.

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I see two horribly hideous
looking, little dog like

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creatures in this house.

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It was a disembodied voice.

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It was like a little child
trying to scare us.

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I don’t know what this was.

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I I’ve I’ve heard everything you
can think of.

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This was nothing I’m ever
accustomed to.

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Ever.

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It was terrifying because it was
like our.

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There were so many people to

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where it was like, are we all

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seeing this?

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So everybody is scared.

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The kids are crying.

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The women, don’t, you know.

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June’s about to lose it.

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And what are they to do?

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These things will not die.

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Welcome to another episode of
River City Mystery, where we

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talk about the mysteries of
southern Indiana, southern

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Illinois, and western Kentucky.

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I’m your host, Matt Deig.

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Before we get started with the
Burrows Cave mystery, I want to

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invite you to join the River
City Mystery discord server at

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RiverCityMystery.com.

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We’ve got a couple hundred
people in there now, a lot of

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them from the tri state area.

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We talk about all kinds of

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topics ranging from true crime,

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local true crime, national true

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crime, paranormal stuff from all

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over.

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We’ve talked about cults.

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We’ve got there’s conversations
going on about lots of stuff.

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So if you’re into that sort of

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thing, which you probably are,

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if you’re listening, check us

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out.

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RiverCityMystery.com.

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Before I get started, I want to

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give you an update on a case

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I’ve been working for a while

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now.

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Those of you who’ve been with me

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a while, remember I have been

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looking into the Zachary Carey

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disappearance in twenty twenty

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four.

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I interviewed Zachary’s mother,

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Gina, and his sister Cecilia,

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and did another episode within

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where I talked to his best

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friend, Chris.

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Zachary disappeared in May of
2023

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Hasn’t been heard from since.

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Unfortunately, the update isn’t
what we were hoping for.

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Zachary’s remains were found
near Lynnville, Indiana, and it

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does not appear as though this
was a foul play situation.

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My thoughts and prayers do go
out to the family.

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I know this has been a horrible
couple of years for them all, so

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if you would like to contribute
to Zachary’s final expenses, the

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family has set up a GoFundMe
account and I will leave a link

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to that down in the show notes.

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So go down and check that out
and help out if you can.

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Before we get into the Burrows

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Cave mystery itself, I think

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it’s important that we dig into

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a little bit about who Russell

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Burrows is as a person, a little

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bit of his history, because I

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think it will affect the

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credibility of his claims,

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because most of the scientific

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world is written off what he has

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said and claimed as being a

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hoax.

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So I do think it’s important to

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look at his past and compare

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that to, you know, at least have

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that in the back of your head

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when you’re listening to what he

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claims happened in nineteen

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eighty two.

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So here’s a little bit about his
past.

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Russell was born in Richwood,

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West Virginia, in nineteen

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thirty five.

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He enlisted in the Army right

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after high school, and by the

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time he was eighteen, in the

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middle of the Korean War, he had

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received a battlefield

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commission.

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This wasn’t a gift.

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It was earned.

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He had a staggering service.

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Actually, he was awarded two

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Silver Stars, a Bronze Star, a

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Legion of Merit, and two Purple

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Hearts.

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After the war, he attended West
Virginia University.

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His major was actually
archaeology.

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He never became a professional
archaeologist, but he definitely

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had an interest in archaeology.

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He continued on with his
military career.

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He went to ranger training,

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served in Africa, and by

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nineteen sixty one was posted in

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Saigon.

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When he finally resigned his

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commission in nineteen sixty

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three, he did so as a full

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colonel.

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He then transitioned into
civilian life, working in

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transportation and later
corrections, and basically

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living a normal life after that.

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And then in nineteen eighty two
is when he discovered the cave.

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He’s now in his late eighties, I
believe, and he’s still living.

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He was actually interviewed by

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Brian Nettles a couple years

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ago.

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He says in his interview that he

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had had a stroke a few years

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before that.

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So he’s not doing that great
health wise.

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He has problems communicating.

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And I reached out to Brian

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Nettles to see if I could borrow

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some of that interview for this

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episode.

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And he did give me permission to
do that.

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So I, I am going to play a
little bit of that interview

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that he did with Russell Burrows
so that so you can hear Russell

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talk about these issues himself.

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Um, so I will be playing that
here later in the episode.

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I do think it’s important to say
that Russell has never, not once

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backed down from the story of
what he found that day.

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Whether or not you believe this
story, it’s important to know

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that he believes that it
happened and maybe he was

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tricked into it, but he
definitely has believed that

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this is all real.

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Um, and he hasn’t ever wavered
or come out and said, uh, yeah,

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it was a hoax.

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I mean, so he’s in his late

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eighties now and he’s not

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backing down.

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So I think that’s important to
bring up as well.

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So what exactly did Burrows

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claim to have found near only

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Illinois back in nineteen eighty

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two.

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Um and this is an aside, but if

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you’ve not been to only

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Illinois, they are known for

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their rare population of eastern

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grey squirrels that are all

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albinos.

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So a bunch of white eastern gray

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squirrels live in in only

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Illinois.

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And I don’t know why, what the
history of that is, but, uh,

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they do live there.

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So go check that out if you’re
ever in that area.

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Um, but apparently in addition

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to the albino squirrels, they

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also have pits full of

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archaeological goldmines.

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So let’s get back to that.

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Um, after he fell into the pit,
he says he managed to find his

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way to a vast man made chamber.

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And in that chamber, he says he

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found elaborate stone coffins,

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swords and other ornaments made

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of gold, bronze and copper, and

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thousands of intricately carved

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stone tablets.

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Burroughs has maintained that

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this site was evidence of old

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world cultures, specifically

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Mediterranean and Middle Eastern

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Speaker:
peoples, who had made it deep

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Speaker:
into the North American interior

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Speaker:
centuries or even thousands of

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Speaker:
years ago before Christopher

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Speaker:
Columbus.

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Speaker:
And so for him, this wasn’t just
a cave in his mind, it was a

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Speaker:
secret history of the world.

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Speaker:
So he partnered with researcher

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Speaker:
Fred Rydholm and they wrote a

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Speaker:
book together.

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Speaker:
And that’s kind of how all the
story ended up getting out there

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Speaker:
because of this book.

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Speaker:
It’s called The Mystery Cave of
Many Faces, and this book is

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Speaker:
basically a deep dive into the
entire story of the finding of

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Speaker:
the cave and what they found.

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Speaker:
And it even goes into various
disputes with neighbors.

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Speaker:
And there’s a there’s a lot of
side stories involved here that

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Speaker:
you can definitely check out the
book, uh, to find it online.

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Speaker:
I noticed it was like one

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Speaker:
hundred bucks plus a lot of

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Speaker:
places it’s not in print

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00:08:32.080 –> 00:08:33.480
Speaker:
anymore, so you have to buy it

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Speaker:
used.

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Speaker:
Apparently it’s fairly rare.

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Speaker:
So there is a website and I have

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Speaker:
a link in the show notes where

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Speaker:
you can actually read it for

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Speaker:
free.

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Speaker:
I believe Brian Nettles I

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Speaker:
mentioned earlier, and I’ll talk

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Speaker:
a little bit more about him

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Speaker:
shortly, but I think he started

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Speaker:
this website where he’s

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Speaker:
researching a lot of these, uh,

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Speaker:
stones and the language on the

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Speaker:
little inscriptions and things

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Speaker:
like that.

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Speaker:
So he also has the book on that

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Speaker:
website that I’ve got linked

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Speaker:
down below.

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Speaker:
I think it should be known that
the cave’s location has never

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Speaker:
been publicly verified, so the
thousands of carved stone

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Speaker:
tablets that Burroughs claims to
have recovered are the only

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Speaker:
tangible evidence that we have,
and they are fascinating.

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00:09:12.309 –> 00:09:14.549
Speaker:
And like I said, links are
below.

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Speaker:
Check them out.

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Speaker:
Make up your own mind on what
what you think there.

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Speaker:
But they’re basically a

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Speaker:
linguistic and artistic jigsaw

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Speaker:
puzzle.

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Speaker:
Uh, they’re reportedly covered
in a mix of different scripts.

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Speaker:
There’s Egyptian like

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Speaker:
hieroglyphs, ancient Greek

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Speaker:
characters, Phoenician symbols,

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00:09:32.289 –> 00:09:33.710
Speaker:
uh, other symbols that don’t

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00:09:33.710 –> 00:09:36.230
Speaker:
seem to match with any known

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Speaker:
script.

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Speaker:
Um, artistically, they show

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Speaker:
faces, ships, warriors, uh, they

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Speaker:
things that look like royal or

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00:09:43.830 –> 00:09:45.389
Speaker:
elite figures.

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00:09:45.389 –> 00:09:47.870
Speaker:
Often they have the Middle
Eastern or Mediterranean

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Speaker:
features on them.

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Speaker:
Those in the pro Russell
Burroughs camp, the believers

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Speaker:
argue that this mix of scripts
and styles makes perfect sense.

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Speaker:
If a refugee group or a long

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Speaker:
distance trading expedition was

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00:10:00.750 –> 00:10:03.389
Speaker:
a true blend of cultures, say

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00:10:03.389 –> 00:10:04.769
Speaker:
Phoenician traders, Greek

293
00:10:04.769 –> 00:10:07.149
Speaker:
soldiers, Egyptian sailors and

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00:10:07.149 –> 00:10:07.850
Speaker:
others.

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00:10:07.850 –> 00:10:10.070
Speaker:
Then a mixed language and style

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00:10:10.070 –> 00:10:11.490
Speaker:
on their memorial stones is

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00:10:11.490 –> 00:10:12.690
Speaker:
exactly what you would expect to

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Speaker:
see.

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00:10:13.730 –> 00:10:18.809
Speaker:
It’s a artifacts of
multicultural travelers.

300
00:10:18.809 –> 00:10:21.889
Speaker:
But the skeptics pounce on this
very point, and they say it’s a

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00:10:21.889 –> 00:10:25.690
Speaker:
hodgepodge, saying it looks like
a confused forgery, and they

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00:10:25.690 –> 00:10:29.330
Speaker:
point to the craftsmanship,
which ranges from meticulously

303
00:10:29.330 –> 00:10:33.450
Speaker:
detailed to surprisingly crude
and supporters counter.

304
00:10:33.450 –> 00:10:35.929
Speaker:
Well, maybe the detailed ones
were carved by the trained

305
00:10:35.929 –> 00:10:38.690
Speaker:
scribes, and the crude ones were
made by the illiterate soldiers

306
00:10:38.690 –> 00:10:40.409
Speaker:
who just tried their best.

307
00:10:40.409 –> 00:10:41.409
Speaker:
So you wouldn’t have just a

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00:10:41.409 –> 00:10:43.850
Speaker:
bunch of people who were trained

309
00:10:43.850 –> 00:10:45.970
Speaker:
scribes, you know, making these

310
00:10:45.970 –> 00:10:46.649
Speaker:
things.

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00:10:46.649 –> 00:10:47.929
Speaker:
It’s a mix of people.

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00:10:47.929 –> 00:10:51.809
Speaker:
So you’ve got people in both
camps making their arguments for

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00:10:51.809 –> 00:10:55.330
Speaker:
why you might have a hodgepodge
of different styles and

314
00:10:55.330 –> 00:10:59.929
Speaker:
techniques on these stones,
regardless of their origin.

315
00:10:59.929 –> 00:11:02.629
Speaker:
Someone put an immense amount of

316
00:11:02.629 –> 00:11:04.110
Speaker:
time into creating these

317
00:11:04.110 –> 00:11:05.429
Speaker:
artifacts.

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00:11:05.429 –> 00:11:08.110
Speaker:
Were they ancient artisans

319
00:11:08.110 –> 00:11:10.009
Speaker:
documenting a lost voyage, or

320
00:11:10.009 –> 00:11:12.909
Speaker:
just some guy making these in

321
00:11:12.909 –> 00:11:14.230
Speaker:
his basement trying to fool the

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00:11:14.230 –> 00:11:14.669
Speaker:
world?

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00:11:14.669 –> 00:11:16.230
Speaker:
We don’t know.

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00:11:16.230 –> 00:11:17.590
Speaker:
What we do know is that

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00:11:17.590 –> 00:11:18.789
Speaker:
Burroughs never publicly

326
00:11:18.789 –> 00:11:20.029
Speaker:
revealed the cave’s exact

327
00:11:20.029 –> 00:11:21.549
Speaker:
location in a way that allowed

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00:11:21.549 –> 00:11:23.990
Speaker:
independent experts, like actual

329
00:11:23.990 –> 00:11:25.590
Speaker:
mainstream archaeologists, to

330
00:11:25.590 –> 00:11:27.269
Speaker:
document it, study it, verify

331
00:11:27.269 –> 00:11:28.590
Speaker:
its existence.

332
00:11:28.590 –> 00:11:31.669
Speaker:
And he always gave explanations
like he was worried about

333
00:11:31.669 –> 00:11:34.950
Speaker:
looters and fear of government
seizure and landowner issues.

334
00:11:34.950 –> 00:11:36.909
Speaker:
And maybe those are legit, I
don’t know.

335
00:11:36.909 –> 00:11:39.230
Speaker:
But the fact remains, no one

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00:11:39.230 –> 00:11:40.909
Speaker:
besides Russell Burroughs and a

337
00:11:40.909 –> 00:11:42.470
Speaker:
few of his close associates have

338
00:11:42.470 –> 00:11:44.230
Speaker:
ever definitively walked inside

339
00:11:44.230 –> 00:11:45.350
Speaker:
the cave.

340
00:11:45.350 –> 00:11:48.070
Speaker:
And that’s kind of a no go for
mainstream archaeology.

341
00:11:48.070 –> 00:11:50.129
Speaker:
Like they have to be able to, to

342
00:11:50.129 –> 00:11:52.429
Speaker:
visit the location to verify the

343
00:11:52.429 –> 00:11:54.110
Speaker:
context in which these objects

344
00:11:54.110 –> 00:11:54.669
Speaker:
were found.

345
00:11:54.669 –> 00:11:58.230
Speaker:
If they can’t physically go
there and see the environment,

346
00:11:58.230 –> 00:12:01.299
Speaker:
then they can’t really verify
that they’re legitimate.

347
00:12:01.299 –> 00:12:03.899
Speaker:
So to be fair, you know, the

348
00:12:03.899 –> 00:12:06.100
Speaker:
mainstream science can’t confirm

349
00:12:06.100 –> 00:12:07.360
Speaker:
that these are legitimate

350
00:12:07.360 –> 00:12:07.940
Speaker:
objects.

351
00:12:07.940 –> 00:12:11.299
Speaker:
If they can’t see the context in
which they were found.

352
00:12:11.299 –> 00:12:12.659
Speaker:
On the flip side, I think the

353
00:12:12.659 –> 00:12:13.899
Speaker:
hoax theory has its own

354
00:12:13.899 –> 00:12:14.419
Speaker:
problems.

355
00:12:14.419 –> 00:12:18.059
Speaker:
Like if the whole reason for
this was financial motive, he

356
00:12:18.059 –> 00:12:20.460
Speaker:
never really made a lot of money
off of this.

357
00:12:20.460 –> 00:12:22.500
Speaker:
This, this quote unquote hoax.

358
00:12:22.500 –> 00:12:25.740
Speaker:
He did write a book and he sold
some of the artifacts, but he

359
00:12:25.740 –> 00:12:27.259
Speaker:
never there was no huge payoff.

360
00:12:27.259 –> 00:12:28.899
Speaker:
He never made millions on the

361
00:12:28.899 –> 00:12:30.120
Speaker:
black market selling these,

362
00:12:30.120 –> 00:12:31.539
Speaker:
these artifacts.

363
00:12:31.539 –> 00:12:34.620
Speaker:
Um, and he stuck to the same
story for the forty years.

364
00:12:34.620 –> 00:12:37.299
Speaker:
He’s not wavered much at all.

365
00:12:37.299 –> 00:12:39.679
Speaker:
As far as on the details, uh, in

366
00:12:39.679 –> 00:12:40.779
Speaker:
the interview you’re going to

367
00:12:40.779 –> 00:12:42.460
Speaker:
hear shortly, he does mention he

368
00:12:42.460 –> 00:12:44.460
Speaker:
had a stroke in the past few

369
00:12:44.460 –> 00:12:45.779
Speaker:
years, so his memory is kind of

370
00:12:45.779 –> 00:12:46.259
Speaker:
shot now.

371
00:12:46.259 –> 00:12:48.299
Speaker:
But previous, the previous forty

372
00:12:48.299 –> 00:12:49.500
Speaker:
years, he stuck to the main

373
00:12:49.500 –> 00:12:50.340
Speaker:
story.

374
00:12:50.340 –> 00:12:53.220
Speaker:
He doesn’t really meet the
profile of someone who would

375
00:12:53.220 –> 00:12:54.539
Speaker:
make up a hoax like this.

376
00:12:54.539 –> 00:12:57.860
Speaker:
I mean, he’s a decorated war
veteran, somebody who doesn’t

377
00:12:57.860 –> 00:13:01.580
Speaker:
seem like he would risk his
entire reputation to, you know,

378
00:13:01.580 –> 00:13:05.320
Speaker:
for this this cave story, it
just doesn’t it doesn’t seem it

379
00:13:05.320 –> 00:13:08.720
Speaker:
doesn’t add up in my head, but
anything is possible as we know.

380
00:13:08.720 –> 00:13:09.960
Speaker:
But it just, it’s one of those

381
00:13:09.960 –> 00:13:11.620
Speaker:
things that just doesn’t, the

382
00:13:11.620 –> 00:13:13.039
Speaker:
dots don’t connect there

383
00:13:13.039 –> 00:13:15.279
Speaker:
necessarily and the actual

384
00:13:15.279 –> 00:13:16.840
Speaker:
artifacts themselves.

385
00:13:16.840 –> 00:13:21.320
Speaker:
Um, some of them actually have
aging and patina that experts,

386
00:13:21.320 –> 00:13:25.440
Speaker:
some experts say that it’s
difficult to replicate those the

387
00:13:25.440 –> 00:13:26.000
Speaker:
way they are.

388
00:13:26.000 –> 00:13:28.960
Speaker:
So some people say that it’s

389
00:13:28.960 –> 00:13:31.440
Speaker:
those artifacts are legitimate

390
00:13:31.440 –> 00:13:32.720
Speaker:
in some way, whether or not they

391
00:13:32.720 –> 00:13:33.919
Speaker:
were found in that cave, I don’t

392
00:13:33.919 –> 00:13:34.159
Speaker:
know.

393
00:13:34.159 –> 00:13:36.039
Speaker:
But, um, so there’s a lot of

394
00:13:36.039 –> 00:13:37.519
Speaker:
these things that make it the

395
00:13:37.519 –> 00:13:39.759
Speaker:
hoax theory questionable as

396
00:13:39.759 –> 00:13:40.679
Speaker:
well.

397
00:13:40.679 –> 00:13:44.279
Speaker:
And next I want you to hear part
of an interview with Brian

398
00:13:44.279 –> 00:13:46.440
Speaker:
Nettles and Russell Burrows.

399
00:13:46.440 –> 00:13:48.279
Speaker:
This was a couple of years ago.

400
00:13:48.279 –> 00:13:51.840
Speaker:
As I mentioned, Russell Burrows
had a stroke, um, several years

401
00:13:51.840 –> 00:13:53.480
Speaker:
before this interview.

402
00:13:53.480 –> 00:13:55.379
Speaker:
And he’s not able to really do

403
00:13:55.379 –> 00:13:57.000
Speaker:
interviews or I would reach out

404
00:13:57.000 –> 00:13:57.279
Speaker:
to him.

405
00:13:57.279 –> 00:14:00.399
Speaker:
But this was probably the last
interview that he’s doing.

406
00:14:00.399 –> 00:14:03.629
Speaker:
And I reached out to Brian and
he did say, I could use this

407
00:14:03.629 –> 00:14:05.750
Speaker:
interview in my podcast episode.

408
00:14:05.750 –> 00:14:07.269
Speaker:
So I appreciate that.

409
00:14:07.269 –> 00:14:12.470
Speaker:
Brian runs a site called Book of
Mormon Heartland dot com.

410
00:14:12.470 –> 00:14:16.470
Speaker:
And as a hobby, he researches
ancient languages.

411
00:14:16.470 –> 00:14:18.110
Speaker:
And Brian has been working on a

412
00:14:18.110 –> 00:14:20.149
Speaker:
project where he’s comparing

413
00:14:20.149 –> 00:14:21.870
Speaker:
artifacts found in Michigan in

414
00:14:21.870 –> 00:14:24.289
Speaker:
nineteen ten to the Burroughs

415
00:14:24.289 –> 00:14:26.070
Speaker:
Cave artifacts.

416
00:14:26.070 –> 00:14:29.149
Speaker:
So he’s got some fascinating
similarities that he compares

417
00:14:29.149 –> 00:14:31.230
Speaker:
those two findings.

418
00:14:31.230 –> 00:14:32.950
Speaker:
Um, in that video that I will

419
00:14:32.950 –> 00:14:34.549
Speaker:
link in the show notes, but the

420
00:14:34.549 –> 00:14:35.950
Speaker:
video that Russell Burroughs is

421
00:14:35.950 –> 00:14:37.549
Speaker:
interviewed where I have here in

422
00:14:37.549 –> 00:14:39.190
Speaker:
the upcoming clip, Russell talks

423
00:14:39.190 –> 00:14:41.230
Speaker:
about a few basic things about

424
00:14:41.230 –> 00:14:42.750
Speaker:
the find.

425
00:14:42.750 –> 00:14:44.929
Speaker:
And I just think it’s important
that you hear from Russell

426
00:14:44.929 –> 00:14:48.830
Speaker:
Burroughs himself so you can
kind of get a feel for what his

427
00:14:48.830 –> 00:14:50.149
Speaker:
thoughts are on this.

428
00:14:50.149 –> 00:14:52.269
Speaker:
I do have the links for Brian

429
00:14:52.269 –> 00:14:54.269
Speaker:
Nettle’s website down in the

430
00:14:54.269 –> 00:14:55.870
Speaker:
show notes, so check that out,

431
00:14:55.870 –> 00:14:57.230
Speaker:
as well as his YouTube video

432
00:14:57.230 –> 00:14:58.309
Speaker:
where he’s doing the full

433
00:14:58.309 –> 00:14:58.789
Speaker:
interview.

434
00:14:58.789 –> 00:14:59.909
Speaker:
So check that out as well.

435
00:14:59.909 –> 00:15:01.245
Speaker:
So this is the interview between

436
00:15:01.245 –> 00:15:02.519
Speaker:
Brian Nettles and Russell

437
00:15:02.519 –> 00:15:03.620
Speaker:
Burrows.

438
00:15:03.620 –> 00:15:05.700
Speaker:
Doing interviews is not
something that I normally do.

439
00:15:05.700 –> 00:15:08.100
Speaker:
I’m not one that has a podcast
where I interview a lot of

440
00:15:08.100 –> 00:15:11.019
Speaker:
people, but this was just a
great opportunity for me.

441
00:15:11.019 –> 00:15:12.139
Speaker:
Like I said, my name is Brian

442
00:15:12.139 –> 00:15:13.899
Speaker:
Nettles, and I’m here because I

443
00:15:13.899 –> 00:15:15.120
Speaker:
wanted to interview Russell

444
00:15:15.120 –> 00:15:16.220
Speaker:
Burrows.

445
00:15:16.220 –> 00:15:20.460
Speaker:
I’m a person who does a lot of
investigating, uh, ancient

446
00:15:20.460 –> 00:15:25.940
Speaker:
artifacts, trying to uncover the
writing system of them.

447
00:15:25.940 –> 00:15:28.259
Speaker:
I’ve done a lot of research on
the Michigan artifacts, and

448
00:15:28.259 –> 00:15:31.500
Speaker:
recently I was introduced to the
Burrows Cave artifacts.

449
00:15:31.500 –> 00:15:34.460
Speaker:
And as I looked at them and
started to compare them with

450
00:15:34.460 –> 00:15:37.419
Speaker:
what I saw in Michigan, I saw
some things that I thought were

451
00:15:37.419 –> 00:15:40.299
Speaker:
very, very compelling.

452
00:15:40.299 –> 00:15:42.379
Speaker:
And so because of that, I became

453
00:15:42.379 –> 00:15:44.320
Speaker:
interested and I reached out to

454
00:15:44.320 –> 00:15:46.500
Speaker:
Russell Burrows to see if he

455
00:15:46.500 –> 00:15:48.379
Speaker:
would allow me to, to, to talk

456
00:15:48.379 –> 00:15:49.779
Speaker:
with him and, and get some more

457
00:15:49.779 –> 00:15:50.460
Speaker:
information.

458
00:15:50.460 –> 00:15:54.019
Speaker:
Because my whole purpose, my
goal is I want to get a good

459
00:15:54.019 –> 00:15:58.019
Speaker:
compilation of all of the images
to do language study.

460
00:15:58.019 –> 00:16:00.500
Speaker:
And so that’s, that’s where I’m
coming from now.

461
00:16:00.500 –> 00:16:03.679
Speaker:
Russell, would you like to to
take a moment to introduce

462
00:16:03.679 –> 00:16:05.159
Speaker:
yourself a little bit?

463
00:16:05.159 –> 00:16:05.759
Speaker:
And.

464
00:16:07.840 –> 00:16:13.000
Speaker:
And I had the misfortune of
finding a cave back.

465
00:16:13.000 –> 00:16:16.240
Speaker:
Nineteen eighty two check.

466
00:16:16.240 –> 00:16:20.179
Speaker:
I said, do you have a you have a

467
00:16:20.179 –> 00:16:23.960
Speaker:
long story that um, has been

468
00:16:23.960 –> 00:16:25.559
Speaker:
told and is continues to be

469
00:16:25.559 –> 00:16:26.559
Speaker:
told.

470
00:16:26.559 –> 00:16:30.679
Speaker:
You’ve written a book, A Cave of
Many Faces.

471
00:16:30.679 –> 00:16:33.480
Speaker:
It was co-authored by other
people.

472
00:16:33.480 –> 00:16:35.559
Speaker:
You found the cave in nineteen
eighty two.

473
00:16:35.559 –> 00:16:37.899
Speaker:
So you are the Russell Burroughs

474
00:16:37.899 –> 00:16:39.519
Speaker:
who was attributed to Burroughs

475
00:16:39.519 –> 00:16:41.039
Speaker:
Cave, right?

476
00:16:41.039 –> 00:16:43.080
Speaker:
How old are you now, Mr.
Burroughs?

477
00:16:43.080 –> 00:16:44.559
Speaker:
Eighty seven.

478
00:16:44.559 –> 00:16:45.919
Speaker:
Eighty seven.

479
00:16:45.919 –> 00:16:47.120
Speaker:
That old crock.

480
00:16:48.360 –> 00:16:50.879
Speaker:
Now, you’ve told me something
about the state of your health.

481
00:16:50.879 –> 00:16:51.120
Speaker:
And.

482
00:16:51.120 –> 00:16:54.799
Speaker:
And it’s probably important that
everybody know the state of your

483
00:16:54.799 –> 00:16:56.519
Speaker:
health right now.

484
00:16:56.519 –> 00:17:00.840
Speaker:
So my understanding is that you
had a stroke recently.

485
00:17:00.840 –> 00:17:01.820
Speaker:
Three years.

486
00:17:01.820 –> 00:17:03.460
Speaker:
About three years ago, you had a
stroke.

487
00:17:03.460 –> 00:17:05.380
Speaker:
That’s so unfortunate.

488
00:17:05.380 –> 00:17:05.779
Speaker:
And you.

489
00:17:05.779 –> 00:17:07.339
Speaker:
And you told me earlier that it

490
00:17:07.339 –> 00:17:08.380
Speaker:
has had an effect on your

491
00:17:08.380 –> 00:17:08.779
Speaker:
memory.

492
00:17:08.779 –> 00:17:13.259
Speaker:
So your memory is not as good as
it used to be, right?

493
00:17:13.259 –> 00:17:14.539
Speaker:
Okay.

494
00:17:14.539 –> 00:17:15.460
Speaker:
Okay.

495
00:17:15.460 –> 00:17:17.619
Speaker:
So we just need to make sure

496
00:17:17.619 –> 00:17:18.980
Speaker:
that that’s that we’re aware of

497
00:17:18.980 –> 00:17:19.500
Speaker:
that.

498
00:17:19.500 –> 00:17:23.460
Speaker:
Um, Russell has told me that if
he says anything that conflicts

499
00:17:23.460 –> 00:17:26.339
Speaker:
with the book, go with the book.

500
00:17:26.339 –> 00:17:27.259
Speaker:
Right?

501
00:17:27.259 –> 00:17:28.180
Speaker:
Right.

502
00:17:28.180 –> 00:17:29.619
Speaker:
Okay.

503
00:17:29.619 –> 00:17:30.740
Speaker:
Go with the book.

504
00:17:30.740 –> 00:17:35.019
Speaker:
So, um, I do have a list of

505
00:17:35.019 –> 00:17:36.660
Speaker:
questions that I wanted to ask

506
00:17:36.660 –> 00:17:37.619
Speaker:
you.

507
00:17:37.619 –> 00:17:39.619
Speaker:
So let me see.

508
00:17:39.619 –> 00:17:42.819
Speaker:
One of the questions I have is,
okay, if that’s true, you are

509
00:17:42.819 –> 00:17:44.980
Speaker:
the one who found the cave.

510
00:17:44.980 –> 00:17:46.019
Speaker:
Yes.

511
00:17:46.019 –> 00:17:47.380
Speaker:
Okay.

512
00:17:47.380 –> 00:17:48.500
Speaker:
Do you believe that the

513
00:17:48.500 –> 00:17:50.220
Speaker:
artifacts that you brought out

514
00:17:50.220 –> 00:17:50.980
Speaker:
of the.

515
00:17:53.380 –> 00:17:54.900
Speaker:
Yeah.

516
00:17:54.900 –> 00:17:55.180
Speaker:
Okay.

517
00:17:55.180 –> 00:17:56.900
Speaker:
You believe that they are
ancient?

518
00:17:56.900 –> 00:17:57.539
Speaker:
Yes.

519
00:17:58.660 –> 00:18:00.339
Speaker:
How old do you think they are?

520
00:18:00.339 –> 00:18:02.410
Speaker:
As a matter of opinion.

521
00:18:03.809 –> 00:18:07.009
Speaker:
Two thousand years, about two
thousand years.

522
00:18:07.009 –> 00:18:07.730
Speaker:
Okay.

523
00:18:09.490 –> 00:18:14.730
Speaker:
Did you ever manufacture any of
the artifacts which you claim

524
00:18:14.730 –> 00:18:16.210
Speaker:
came from the cave?

525
00:18:16.210 –> 00:18:22.210
Speaker:
No. Do you consider yourself an
honest person?

526
00:18:22.210 –> 00:18:23.569
Speaker:
Absolutely.

527
00:18:25.170 –> 00:18:27.430
Speaker:
Did anyone else you are aware of

528
00:18:27.430 –> 00:18:29.569
Speaker:
ever manufacture any of the

529
00:18:29.569 –> 00:18:32.170
Speaker:
artifacts which you claim came

530
00:18:32.170 –> 00:18:35.269
Speaker:
from the cave and claimed to be

531
00:18:35.269 –> 00:18:37.529
Speaker:
ancient, knowing that they were

532
00:18:37.529 –> 00:18:38.650
Speaker:
not?

533
00:18:38.650 –> 00:18:39.009
Speaker:
Yeah.

534
00:18:39.009 –> 00:18:42.250
Speaker:
That crumb, Harry Hubbard.

535
00:18:44.170 –> 00:18:45.529
Speaker:
He tried.

536
00:18:45.529 –> 00:18:46.289
Speaker:
Okay.

537
00:18:47.609 –> 00:18:48.650
Speaker:
What?

538
00:18:48.650 –> 00:18:50.509
Speaker:
But as far as artifacts that you

539
00:18:50.509 –> 00:18:53.890
Speaker:
claim came from the cave, your

540
00:18:53.890 –> 00:18:55.829
Speaker:
belief is that all of them are

541
00:18:55.829 –> 00:18:56.569
Speaker:
ancient.

542
00:18:56.569 –> 00:18:58.650
Speaker:
And they were not made by you.

543
00:18:58.650 –> 00:19:01.269
Speaker:
And they were not made by
anyone, you know?

544
00:19:01.269 –> 00:19:01.950
Speaker:
Right.

545
00:19:01.950 –> 00:19:02.470
Speaker:
That’s right.

546
00:19:02.470 –> 00:19:03.789
Speaker:
Okay.

547
00:19:03.789 –> 00:19:05.750
Speaker:
Did you ever manufacture any

548
00:19:05.750 –> 00:19:08.349
Speaker:
replicas of the objects found in

549
00:19:08.349 –> 00:19:09.069
Speaker:
the cave?

550
00:19:10.069 –> 00:19:10.789
Speaker:
No.

551
00:19:10.789 –> 00:19:11.630
Speaker:
No.

552
00:19:11.630 –> 00:19:13.029
Speaker:
Okay.

553
00:19:13.029 –> 00:19:14.950
Speaker:
Did anyone else you are aware of

554
00:19:14.950 –> 00:19:17.589
Speaker:
ever manufacture any replicas of

555
00:19:17.589 –> 00:19:18.910
Speaker:
the objects you found in the

556
00:19:18.910 –> 00:19:19.470
Speaker:
caves?

557
00:19:19.470 –> 00:19:20.230
Speaker:
Yes.

558
00:19:21.869 –> 00:19:23.829
Speaker:
Did you like to expound on that?

559
00:19:23.829 –> 00:19:24.470
Speaker:
Yeah.

560
00:19:24.470 –> 00:19:25.910
Speaker:
Yeah.

561
00:19:25.910 –> 00:19:30.710
Speaker:
The man whose property is dead
now.

562
00:19:31.710 –> 00:19:32.430
Speaker:
But.

563
00:19:34.390 –> 00:19:37.470
Speaker:
He took all the metal.

564
00:19:37.470 –> 00:19:43.869
Speaker:
He said he owns a foundry in
Saint Louis.

565
00:19:43.869 –> 00:19:50.549
Speaker:
He took him over there and
manufactured lead.

566
00:19:52.750 –> 00:19:53.869
Speaker:
Crushers.

567
00:19:53.869 –> 00:19:55.430
Speaker:
Okay.

568
00:19:55.430 –> 00:20:00.869
Speaker:
And then coated with gold.

569
00:20:03.059 –> 00:20:07.019
Speaker:
Okay, so that would that would
be Mr. Black.

570
00:20:07.019 –> 00:20:07.460
Speaker:
Yeah.

571
00:20:07.460 –> 00:20:07.779
Speaker:
Okay.

572
00:20:07.779 –> 00:20:11.019
Speaker:
Mr. black is written about in
the book.

573
00:20:11.019 –> 00:20:11.619
Speaker:
Okay.

574
00:20:12.619 –> 00:20:15.660
Speaker:
Approximately how many artifacts
did you take out of the cave?

575
00:20:15.660 –> 00:20:17.259
Speaker:
The book says about four
thousand.

576
00:20:17.259 –> 00:20:19.619
Speaker:
Is that sound correct to you?

577
00:20:19.619 –> 00:20:20.779
Speaker:
Yeah.

578
00:20:20.779 –> 00:20:22.460
Speaker:
Proofs.

579
00:20:22.460 –> 00:20:23.660
Speaker:
Okay.

580
00:20:23.660 –> 00:20:27.119
Speaker:
And, uh, about what percentage
of the artifacts do you think

581
00:20:27.119 –> 00:20:28.619
Speaker:
had writings on them?

582
00:20:30.339 –> 00:20:31.259
Speaker:
Seems like.

583
00:20:31.259 –> 00:20:33.140
Speaker:
Oh, okay.

584
00:20:33.140 –> 00:20:35.460
Speaker:
Well, many of them have faces,
and many of the faces had

585
00:20:35.460 –> 00:20:37.099
Speaker:
writings on them.

586
00:20:37.099 –> 00:20:38.019
Speaker:
Yeah.

587
00:20:38.019 –> 00:20:39.740
Speaker:
Okay.

588
00:20:39.740 –> 00:20:42.259
Speaker:
Now, did you create the writing

589
00:20:42.259 –> 00:20:43.539
Speaker:
system that is found on the

590
00:20:43.539 –> 00:20:44.619
Speaker:
artifacts?

591
00:20:44.619 –> 00:20:48.220
Speaker:
No, no. So you attest that this

592
00:20:48.220 –> 00:20:49.900
Speaker:
writing system was not concocted

593
00:20:49.900 –> 00:20:52.259
Speaker:
by you or any other person you

594
00:20:52.259 –> 00:20:54.299
Speaker:
are aware of who lived in the

595
00:20:54.299 –> 00:20:55.779
Speaker:
past, say, one hundred and fifty

596
00:20:55.779 –> 00:20:56.940
Speaker:
years?

597
00:20:56.940 –> 00:20:58.339
Speaker:
That’s right, that’s right.

598
00:20:58.339 –> 00:20:59.619
Speaker:
Okay.

599
00:20:59.619 –> 00:21:04.339
Speaker:
Brian goes on to go over the
slideshow, where he compares

600
00:21:04.339 –> 00:21:09.259
Speaker:
photos of artifacts that were in
the Michigan find along with the

601
00:21:09.259 –> 00:21:11.279
Speaker:
artifacts in the Burrows cave.

602
00:21:11.279 –> 00:21:11.920
Speaker:
Find.

603
00:21:11.920 –> 00:21:14.000
Speaker:
And he compares the styles of
both.

604
00:21:14.000 –> 00:21:15.079
Speaker:
So it’s pretty interesting

605
00:21:15.079 –> 00:21:16.160
Speaker:
video, but obviously doesn’t

606
00:21:16.160 –> 00:21:17.680
Speaker:
play very well on an audio

607
00:21:17.680 –> 00:21:18.160
Speaker:
podcast.

608
00:21:18.160 –> 00:21:20.119
Speaker:
So you’re welcome to check that
out.

609
00:21:20.119 –> 00:21:21.539
Speaker:
I wanted you to hear Russell

610
00:21:21.539 –> 00:21:23.079
Speaker:
himself talk about the

611
00:21:23.079 –> 00:21:23.640
Speaker:
situations.

612
00:21:23.640 –> 00:21:26.000
Speaker:
You could hear his voice and his
take on it.

613
00:21:26.000 –> 00:21:27.000
Speaker:
So the truth is, all these

614
00:21:27.000 –> 00:21:28.440
Speaker:
decades later, we simply don’t

615
00:21:28.440 –> 00:21:30.359
Speaker:
know whether the cave exists or

616
00:21:30.359 –> 00:21:31.920
Speaker:
not, or whether the stones are

617
00:21:31.920 –> 00:21:34.039
Speaker:
truly ancient or modern

618
00:21:34.039 –> 00:21:36.400
Speaker:
creations by some guy in a

619
00:21:36.400 –> 00:21:37.119
Speaker:
basement.

620
00:21:37.119 –> 00:21:39.880
Speaker:
This remains one of those
mysteries that’s never quite

621
00:21:39.880 –> 00:21:43.839
Speaker:
been solved, and it’s a mystery
from the Tri-State area.

622
00:21:43.839 –> 00:21:45.039
Speaker:
So I wanted to bring it up, and

623
00:21:45.039 –> 00:21:46.079
Speaker:
it definitely falls into the

624
00:21:46.079 –> 00:21:47.039
Speaker:
realm of what we would talk

625
00:21:47.039 –> 00:21:47.680
Speaker:
about here.

626
00:21:47.680 –> 00:21:49.519
Speaker:
So I’d like to hear your
opinion.

627
00:21:49.519 –> 00:21:52.240
Speaker:
If you have thoughts on this,
join the discord.

628
00:21:52.240 –> 00:21:53.819
Speaker:
RiverCityMystery.com/discord

629
00:21:53.819 –> 00:21:55.720
Speaker:
and let us know what you

630
00:21:55.720 –> 00:21:56.240
Speaker:
think.

631
00:21:56.240 –> 00:21:57.799
Speaker:
Thank you for listening to this
episode.

632
00:21:57.799 –> 00:21:59.680
Speaker:
Until next time, take care.